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Rice

Wandering

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Joined: 06/21/2003

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Posted: 06/09/18 05:32pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

udidwht wrote:

You'll be very hard pressed to have anyone tow you until the allotted amount of time has passed. Your misinterpreting the code. It is simply illegal to tow a vehicle immediately and without notice (ex. fire-lane violation)

I'm not interpreting anything--I'm simply reading the words of the "Bible" that you refer to.

Please quote the language in the Code that says that if the signage provided for in the Code is in place, a property owner must still wait 96 hours before towing a vehicle.

udidwht

Seattle

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Posted: 06/09/18 05:39pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Rice wrote:

udidwht wrote:

You'll be very hard pressed to have anyone tow you until the allotted amount of time has passed. Your misinterpreting the code. It is simply illegal to tow a vehicle immediately and without notice (ex. fire-lane violation)

I'm not interpreting anything--I'm simply reading the words of the "Bible" that you refer to.

Please quote the language in the Code that says that if the signage provided for in the Code is in place, a property owner must still wait 96 hours before towing a vehicle.


'The vehicle has been issued a notice of parking violation, and 96 hours have elapsed since the issuance of that notice.'

Catch word...and

To 99.9% of folks that won't even apply. Because they'll be long gone. Businesses like to limit liability. Hence the wait period. I've seen signage state 72-96 hours but state law is 96 hours.

But like I said to 99.9% of us 22658 won't apply because we'll be long gone. Even more so if your passing thru.

* This post was edited 06/09/18 05:45pm by udidwht *


1994 Fleetwood Southwind Storm
P-30 chassis 7.4L 454 TBI 56,4XX miles and counting....
VIN# 1GBJP37N4R3314754

Rice

Wandering

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Posted: 06/09/18 08:46pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

udidwht wrote:

'The vehicle has been issued a notice of parking violation, and 96 hours have elapsed since the issuance of that notice.'

Catch word...and

No, I asked for language that says that the "notice and 96 hours" applies in situations where appropriate signage has been posted, and what you quote doesn't say that.

The "notice and 96 hours" is just one of the circumstances in which vehicles on private property can be towed. The Code says vehicles may be towed "under any of the following circumstances" and lists four distinct situations, which are independent of each other:

1. If appropriate signage exists
2. the one you keep citing about notice and 96 hours
3. If a vehicle is inoperable and the cops have been called and 24 hours has elapsed since the cops were called
4. The property where the vehicle is parked has been improved with a single family dwelling

So a vehicle can be towed if circumstance 1 exists OR if circumstance 2 exists OR if circumstance 3 exists OR if circumstance 4 exists.

It says "any of the following circumstances," not "all of the following circumstances," and definitely not "any of the following circumstances except #2 applies to some or all of the others."

If there is appropriate signage (circumstance 1), then the 96 hours (circumstance 2) doesn't apply.

That is what the words say, plus your insistence that the 96 hours applies to all the situations doesn't make sense when one of the situations has a 24-hour provision. In cases of internal inconsistencies or conflicts, laws will acknowledge them by saying something like "Notwithstanding the provisions in Section X ..." That the legislature didn't do that here shows that the 96 hours doesn't apply because otherwise they would have to explain away the conflict.

And really? A homeowner has to wait 96 hours to have a car towed out of his driveway? If you think the 96 hours applies to circumstance 1 (appropriate signage exists), then it also has to apply to circumstance 4 (parked in a driveway at somebody's house). That's a ridiculous conclusion.

The language clearly says that any one of the four circumstances listed will support towing, and having one of them apply to the other three leads to nonsense conclusions.

Also, you could spend a little time looking at various tow company and law firm websites, not to mention discussion forums, that address towing cars on private property in California, and you'll find that they don't agree with you. That's because the language is clear: vehicles can be towed if any one of those circumstances exists, and one of them is that the property owner has erected the proper signage. If the signs are there, the property owner doesn't have to give notice (actually, he's already given notice via the signs) and he doesn't have to wait 96 hours before having a vehicle towed; that requirement is in a separate provision, distinct from the one about proper signage.

I honestly don't know how to make it any clearer to you (and hopefully to anyone who believes they can park on whatever private property they want as long as they don't exceed 96 hours because you say so).

udidwht

Seattle

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Posted: 06/09/18 09:45pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Rice wrote:

udidwht wrote:

'The vehicle has been issued a notice of parking violation, and 96 hours have elapsed since the issuance of that notice.'

Catch word...and

No, I asked for language that says that the "notice and 96 hours" applies in situations where appropriate signage has been posted, and what you quote doesn't say that.

The "notice and 96 hours" is just one of the circumstances in which vehicles on private property can be towed. The Code says vehicles may be towed "under any of the following circumstances" and lists four distinct situations, which are independent of each other:

1. If appropriate signage exists
2. the one you keep citing about notice and 96 hours
3. If a vehicle is inoperable and the cops have been called and 24 hours has elapsed since the cops were called
4. The property where the vehicle is parked has been improved with a single family dwelling

So a vehicle can be towed if circumstance 1 exists OR if circumstance 2 exists OR if circumstance 3 exists OR if circumstance 4 exists.

It says "any of the following circumstances," not "all of the following circumstances," and definitely not "any of the following circumstances except #2 applies to some or all of the others."

If there is appropriate signage (circumstance 1), then the 96 hours (circumstance 2) doesn't apply.

That is what the words say, plus your insistence that the 96 hours applies to all the situations doesn't make sense when one of the situations has a 24-hour provision. In cases of internal inconsistencies or conflicts, laws will acknowledge them by saying something like "Notwithstanding the provisions in Section X ..." That the legislature didn't do that here shows that the 96 hours doesn't apply because otherwise they would have to explain away the conflict.

And really? A homeowner has to wait 96 hours to have a car towed out of his driveway? If you think the 96 hours applies to circumstance 1 (appropriate signage exists), then it also has to apply to circumstance 4 (parked in a driveway at somebody's house). That's a ridiculous conclusion.

The language clearly says that any one of the four circumstances listed will support towing, and having one of them apply to the other three leads to nonsense conclusions.

Also, you could spend a little time looking at various tow company and law firm websites, not to mention discussion forums, that address towing cars on private property in California, and you'll find that they don't agree with you. That's because the language is clear: vehicles can be towed if any one of those circumstances exists, and one of them is that the property owner has erected the proper signage. If the signs are there, the property owner doesn't have to give notice (actually, he's already given notice via the signs) and he doesn't have to wait 96 hours before having a vehicle towed; that requirement is in a separate provision, distinct from the one about proper signage.

I honestly don't know how to make it any clearer to you (and hopefully to anyone who believes they can park on whatever private property they want as long as they don't exceed 96 hours because you say so).


A homeowners property is entirely different than a property that is leased such as a business establishment with 'public' parking lot/s. When a business decides to have (X) security/and/or person to enforce parking rules and those rules start with the issuance of parking citation then they must also wait the duration.

Signage is a mere legal formality to allow those parking to know that they may be towed for....(much like having a 'Beware of dog' sign on your property if you own a dog.) Guess what happens when someone is bit and you have no signage?

As I said to 99.9% of us CVC 22658 will never apply (long gone). To the remaining small percent many don't want the hassle and reluctantly pay and off they go.

I occasionally will recite passages of (22658) to the hunky dory security rock watcher and they reluctantly walk off in frustration. Tow drivers are the last to go to regarding the CVC. They work for profit and have only (1) thing on their mind and isn't the CVC.

Gottahaveit

Stockton CA

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Posted: 06/09/18 11:27pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

[emoticon] Let's not beat the dead horse any longer [emoticon]

Rice

Wandering

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Joined: 06/21/2003

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Posted: 06/10/18 11:18pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

udidwht wrote:

I occasionally will recite passages of (22658) to the hunky dory security rock watcher and they reluctantly walk off in frustration.

Have you read California Vehicle Code Section 22953(a)? It says:

An owner or person in lawful possession of private property that is held open to the public, or a discernible portion thereof, for parking of vehicles at no fee, or an employee or agent thereof, shall not tow or remove, or cause the towing or removal, of a vehicle within one hour of the vehicle being parked.

In plainer English, if a vehicle is parked on private property that is open to the public and provides free parking, it can't be towed until it has been parked for one hour. That means vehicles can be towed after they've been parked for one hour. Not 96 hours.

Here are some references:

From a Los Angeles Times story about predatory towing:

California law requires that tow truck drivers wait one hour before towing vehicles that are parked illegally in commercial lots.


From an LA Weekly story about tow companies holding vehicles for ransom:

The state of California says you have an hour of parking in a private, nonresidential, non-hotel lot before your car can be towed...


From the step-by-step guide on a tow company's website:

STEP 3 - HAS THE CAR BEEN THERE FOR AT LEAST ONE HOUR?
Before we can tow from private property you must verify the vehicle has been there for one hour.



From Consumer Connection, a publication of the California Department of Consumer Affairs:

One-Hour Rule A vehicle must be parked for one full hour before being towed unless it is parked in a manner that interferes with an entrance or exit, is within 15 feet of a fire hydrant, or in a fire lane. The curb of a fire lane must be painted red and be clearly labeled "No Parking Fire Lane."


From the website of a business that sells a kit for suing tow companies in small claims court:

If the property has free parking open to the public then a vehicle can be towed after it has been improperly parked for one hour.

This applies to restaurants, stores and other places which are private property, there is no charge to enter and park, and the property is open to the public to enter.

Example: A store parking lot says parking is for customers only. If you park there you can only be towed after one hour.

If a vehicle is towed before it has been parked for an hour the penalty is two times the towing and storage fees.



The California Vehicle Code allows vehicles to be towed after one hour, not 96 hours. This is important to RVers who want to overnight in a parking lot because presumably they'll be there for more than one hour.

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