Nervous about ending up with a mass produced junk box.

[brianosaur]

First timer ready to go to Hershey next week.
Looking into 27'-31' BH TT.

Reading & researching up the wahzoo for weeks now.

Floorplans, weight, towing, tow vehicle, ratings, GCVR, GWR, hitches, appliances, power, water, awnings, slides, hookups, dumping, aluminum or fiberglass, maintenance & storage, tires, cover, space to store at home, ect. .....aaaaaahhh!

Once I got past all the how to's, what to's and pretty surface stuff I got looked into construction and manufacturing.

Watched the Jayco speed build video on youtube and my jaw dropped.
It looks like a mass produced speed built junk box!

Reading thread after thread leads me to believe the following, whether it is true or not:

- Most TT are made this way.

- This is the industry standard, quality control sucks and that's what dealers are for.

- Reviews can be found on every manufacturer where some say they are horrible and others just love them.

- Repairs are part of owning an RV, suck it up and deal with it.

- Maintenance is key and due diligence will prolong the inevitable.

- Water damage is a 'when' not an 'if'.


So am I being paranoid?

[Txsurfer]

Will be looking at 5th wheel Toy Haulers in the near future.. I am almost convinced to just go with a low end model ( FR for example ) and take the savings up front. My buddy bought a new (leftover ) Vengence in the low 30's with a nice layout and a genset. I am pretty handy and can fix most things plus it will parked in covered storage. Having a hard time trying to convince myself to pay another $10-15K plus for a slightly better brand.

[soren]

Ralph Cramden wrote:


Now getting a non Amish crew would have merits lol. What a bunch of hacks the Amish. They need to stick to barns and corn cribs.
.

I live in the middle of forty thousand plain folk, Amish and Mennonite, in PA. Many are craftsmen, most do extremely high quality work. ALL of the hard furniture in our house was made locally, some is new, some is decades old, and still looks and works new. No reason to think that it won't last for the next hundred years, as it's built better than it was a century ago. Back then they didn't Kreg screw and urethane glue joints together, or have the finishes available that last for decades without yellowing or pealing.

When it comes to the quality issues plaguing the industry, it's all about who is running the show. You pay peanuts, and demand that everybody run around like idiots, the work looks like it was done by monkeys on meth. The fact that your RV was slammed together by a 19 year old drug addict and high school drop out from Elkhart, or a 60 year old Amish church elder from shipshewana, is meaningless. They are both under the gun to smash the thing together as fast as possible. Right or wrong, well done, or pathetic, is of no concern to management.

OTOH, if you own a company, and look at every product as a statement about who you are, you end up with stunningly high quality products. The Amish shed manufacturing business in this area is one example. You have Amish company owners using design softwear, and CAD/CAM optimizing saws to precut all their sheet goods, plywood,T-1-11, etc.... They then construct sheds that are extremely well built, and precise. Not a nail out of place, crisp, straight edges on everything, and delivered for 20-30% more than you would spend clubbing the same thing together as a DIY project. If another group of Amish decide to take a shot at opening a new RV manufacturer, they could build an amazing product, at a competitive price. It's been done before, and who knows, given the current environment in the industry, maybe it's time for another one.

[Takamine]

We found the floor plan we liked and looked at at least 7 different manufacturer's versions of that floor plan. Some were obviously poorer quality and a few stood out above the others. We went with one of those that appeared to rank higher on the quality scale and had the features we liked. So far, so good.

As has been mentioned, when you hook that thing to the back of a truck and bounce it down country roads and sail down Interstate highways, it's gonna take a beating. I'm sure wear and tear varies a lot depending on whether you travel hundreds of miles a year or thousands. We don't generally travel long distances, so we would fall in the hundreds category.

[Stefonius]

We just attended the Hershey show, and DW fell in love with a Cedar Creek Champagne Edition 38EL fifth wheel. It has a great kitchen, bedroom and bathroom. More livingroom than I need, and about six feet longer than I want to tow. I managed to drag her away before she whipped out the checkbook, but we'll probably end up buying that model as a used unit in the next couple of years.

[LarryJM]

ScottG wrote:
No, I think that about sums it up.
Some are certainly better than others but none of them are the Lexus or Mercedes of trailers.

Yep it's just the market and consumer's demands so unless you're at the upper 5 into 6 figures for TTs or 5ers and at the upper 6 even into 7 figures for MHs you're going to get basically what the market standards are in the RV industry IMO.

Again IMO the real key is good maintenance, and the ability to fix and make those improvements that you want that makes or breaks the overall RV quality and longivity.

Larry

[Happy_Camper3]

I was wondering when the year of the " shove 'em out the door junk boxes was"

So it was 2017 and 2018 ???

Do you think the 2019's will be any better ?

[Ralph_Cramden]

Happy.Camper wrote:
I think the picture is getting painted darker than it needs to be.

I bought a 2003 Toy hauler in around 2012 ...

I have done eternabond on the roof, and re- sealed it a month ago ..

I have owned it 5 years, the only other problem I have is, the fridge only works on electric..

so its not like it falls apart just sitting there ...

Buy a 2017 or 2018 built during the RVIA self proclaimed "RV Boom" and see if you can make the same statement afterwards. No need to worry about it falling apart just sitting there after the purchase as it probably started falling apart prior to the purchase, usually before it ever left the plant lol.

It's evident when you go to the RV shows now days. Lots of shoddy mass produced junk boxes at those. It's hard to believe they floor them like that but they do. I am not allowed to attend them anymore as while the wife was oooohing and ahhhing, I was punch listing trailers and screwing with the sales people's minds. I don't think they would let me bring a creeper and ladder into a convention or expo center.

[Happy_Camper3]

I think the picture is getting painted darker than it needs to be.

I bought a 2003 Toy hauler in around 2012 ...

I have done eternabond on the roof, and re- sealed it a month ago ..

I have owned it 5 years, the only other problem I have is, the fridge only works on electric..

so its not like it falls apart just sitting there ...

[tragusa3]

Most comments here are correct, even if in disagreement. It's all based on personal experience.

I'll make a few comments:

- if you can't embrace fixing and improving things as being part of the hobby, then you will likely be frustrated.

- if you can't stomach loosing most of your investment in 10-15 years and chalk it up to great value for the experience, then you will likely be frustrated.

It's like most hobby type investments. The experiences they give are where the value is. If you aren't making memories, then the value is poor.

We've been all over the country in ours, with over 300 nights in the first 2 years. Although I wouldn't be happy, the whole thing could rot away tomorrow and it has already provided a decent value. I wouldn't trade the memories back for the money.

I don't have much experience with different models, but I have noticed a clear difference between my entry level Thor product and my current mid-level Forest River. Neither meets my expectations, but the Surveyor is much, much closer. We keep it under a roof, and I do not question it will hold up nicely to 15 years or more.

[Ralph_Cramden]

SidecarFlip wrote:

rjxj wrote:
"Fleetwood syndrome"
I love it. Lmao

I love it too.

I have to say though (and 'Ralph Cramden' has known me for a while even before this forum we were both on another RV forum together (and neither of us are there now, which is neither here nor there so he knows I don't candy coat my comments about anything (which is one reason why I'm not on that forum anymore, among other reasons that I won't get into here), but...

In all reality, I have had no issues with my current (2 year old) Palomino, which, is a wholly owned subsidiary of Forrest River, which is noted (on many forums and in many comments about building junk boxes.

If I had any issues, I would not be at all hesitant about posting it, on any forum, but I haven't. Not even a loose screw and I never has any cause to worry about a warranty issue because there never was any.

Maybe I got lucky, maybe mine was built in a Tuesday afternoon, maybe mine was assembled by a non-Amish crew, whatever the reason, I lucked out....and that is the truth. I have no reason to state it any other way.

LOL........Tuesday? The first FR POS Rockwood sent to the dealer was built on a Wednesday. $5K in authorized repairs needed before purchase, which eventually they were told to shove it. Some poor bastard ended up with that thing, actually I am fairly certain I ended up beside the poor bastard at a state park a few weeks ago. I did not have the heart to tell him I thought his trailer was the one we rejected, why ruin his camping trip? On a side note when we were shopping around, a 23 WS that we looked at which had survived being on display at Hershey, was purchased by a woman on that other forum. It was a mass produced junk box that had about 10000 people going througb it and was brought back to the dealer then sold. The second one FR slapped together and shipped to us, which we accepted and purchased, was built on a Friday lol.

Now getting a non Amish crew would have merits lol. What a bunch of hacks the Amish. They need to stick to barns and corn cribs.


I am Ralph, and I have a mass produced junk box.

[SidecarFlip]

rjxj wrote:
"Fleetwood syndrome"
I love it. Lmao

I love it too.

I have to say though (and 'Ralph Cramden' has known me for a while even before this forum we were both on another RV forum together (and neither of us are there now, which is neither here nor there so he knows I don't candy coat my comments about anything (which is one reason why I'm not on that forum anymore, among other reasons that I won't get into here), but...

In all reality, I have had no issues with my current (2 year old) Palomino, which, is a wholly owned subsidiary of Forrest River, which is noted (on many forums and in many comments about building junk boxes.

If I had any issues, I would not be at all hesitant about posting it, on any forum, but I haven't. Not even a loose screw and I never has any cause to worry about a warranty issue because there never was any.

Maybe I got lucky, maybe mine was built in a Tuesday afternoon, maybe mine was assembled by a non-Amish crew, whatever the reason, I lucked out....and that is the truth. I have no reason to state it any other way.

[azrving]

"Fleetwood syndrome"
I love it. Lmao

[soren]

SidecarFlip wrote:

soren wrote:
Lots of good advice here. We have owned ten RVs in a long stretch of being addicted to camping. I would strongly second the buying used aspect. I would also recommend that you buy it from a private sale, and from the original owner. Nothing cuts through the bull twinkies more than being able to look the original owner in the eye, when you discuss things like leaks and other problems. Second, never trust an opinion from an owner, or member here, with regard to quality. First, there is the data VS anecdote value of asking "what do you think of your brand X RV?" The guy you are speaking to might of had a relatively trouble free experience. The next RV that rolled off the line, after his was built, might of been the biggest piece of garbage ever built. Second, a lot of folks have very selective memories, and a bit of an ego to deal with. They might have had a history of less than satisfactory experiences, but they tend to "forget" the bad times, and even look at the past with rose colored glasses, since telling you that they bought a POS is like admitting that they failed.They might have had a history of less than satisfactory experiences, but they tend to "forget" the bad times, and even look at the past with rose colored glasses, since telling you that they bought a POS is like admitting that they failed. Good luck, it's a tough issue to deal with.

No one in their right mind is going to admit on a public forum that they screwed up and bought a junk box RV....

Problem is, many have but won't admit it.....:S

Nail on the head, my friend. The wife and I have a term we coined, and use between ourselves. We call it "Fleetwood syndrome", and it involves avoiding the truth, or even flat our lying about your choices, since it's too hard for your ego to deal with the fact that you made bad ones.

Almost fifteen years ago, when I was younger and dumber, we wanted a modest travel trailer and found that a Fleetwood Wilderness seemed to suit our needs. We asked on the forum and got 4-5 responses from Fleetwood owners who claimed that they were simply the greatest TT ever built. Boy did we get scammed following that advice. It came with a two year warranty, and it was nothing but problems for that two years. At the end of the 24 months the entire floor was rotted out, since they used defective cargo doors that funneled rainwater into the walls and under vinyl floor, completely undetected. Fleetwood denied the claim, based on a lack of maintenance. Truth was, it was not a maintenance issue. They knew of the defective doors and were hoping to burn up the clock, and deny claims, to avoid the huge cost of rebuilding countless trailers. There we were, two years into owning a pathetic POS, and it was rotten to the point of being totaled. So much for all the great reviews here. In the end, it was purchased from a small family run dealer who was battling on our behalf. After an ugly fight, the owner of the dealership ended up in a screaming match with a Fleetwood VP, and asked if they wanted to come grab all of their junk off his lot? He got them to pick the thing up, lift the body off and rebuild all the rot, at no charge. We got it back and dumped it, ASAP, before the next disaster reared it's head.

Bottom line? Never trust glowing reviews here. Many are 100% true, and many are nothing but steaming piles of bull twinkies. Problem is, you don't know which is which.

[dodge_guy]

Lynnmor wrote:

Ralph Cramden wrote:


I bought a junk box RV. Its no longer so much of a junk box since I spent countless hours finishing the build and correcting the factory screw ups, reinforcing the frame, you name it.

I can admit it. I am Ralph and I have a junk box RV.

Ditto Ralph, you saved me some typing.

I can admit it. I am Lynnmor and I have a junk box RV. 😮

I'm Not saying they are perfect, but my FR has only had a radio issue. Other than that it has been great. I know Keystones have their issue too, as I helped my buddy repair his. His need a lot of help, but we got it sorted out. All manuf have they're problems.