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 > Tesla Semi truck unveil & test ride set for Oct 26th !

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John / Angela

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Posted: 09/15/17 10:23pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

John & Angela wrote:

wilber1 wrote:

8.1 Van wrote:

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

Tesla can't even make one full lap around Nuremburg at full power in their small light car, and yet they are going to make a Semi Truck? Good luck with that!

Musk is farming the government for money. If it wasn't for the billions of dollars that the government gave him, we would not be having this discussion. [emoticon] [emoticon]

2017 Tesla Model S P100D First Test: A New Record — 0-60 MPH in 2.28 Seconds!

Show me a link to the billions given to him.


0 to 60, then what? We know electric motors make massive torque from zero RPM so they are going to put up impressive acceleration times but the S can't go flat out for one lap on a 14 mlle road course. Of course road cars are seldom driven flat out but it does point to the limitations of present EV technology.


Is that really a realistic limitation though. Just sayin.



It is when you are in a semi towing 80,000 lbs for hours on end. And this is what this thread is about.


Yah, that's true. Point taken. But let's wait for the reveal and see how they are progressing.


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Lessmore

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Posted: 09/16/17 12:02am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

John & Angela wrote:

time2roll wrote:

The tax credits to customers apply to ALL solar companies.
Tax credits for purchasing an EV go to ALL automotive manufacturers.

This is not a Tesla subsidy. ALL participants get same. ALL are welcome to join.


Very true. The other thing is how do we define a subsidy. Is a trillion dollar multi national Middle East war a subsidy? How much do nations pay every year to keep oil shipping lanes secure every year. Should oil companies be made responsable to pay security costs? If so, what would the cost of a barrel of oil be??

I think governments have a role to play in the development of some technologies. Just staying the course and burning fuel until it is all gone doesn't seem to be a good way forward.

JMHO


Being an older fellow, I recall activists started back in the '70's by saying we were going to run out of gas / oil soon, so we must look at another source of energy. Didn't happen of course, in fact in the decades since then, new oil finds seem to ever more prevalent on a very consistent basis.

In fact some modern scientists theorize that oil is a natural...sustainable... product of our our planet and with vastly improved, over the years emissions technology, oil does not seem to be the threat that it once was. As a result of all this, once the old mantra about oil/gas running out lost validity...as new oil discoveries continued. Then the revised advocacy/pressure group strategy of the planet being endangered, replaced it.

As far as maintaining security in shipping lanes,etc...this is done for a vast array of cargo, in addition to oil, that use these same shipping lanes. Piracy is after cargo...to negotiate as ransom...whether it be oil and /or other products is immaterial.

As far as electricity goes, it will become more expensive...mostly by increased taxes....if electricity becomes the primary 'fuel' for vehicles...governments will increase the taxes on electricity by a lot. I would say this is a given. There is no free lunch. Costs to charge electric vehicles will go up as electric vehicle use increases.

Other issues of concern would be accessing minerals (nickel for example) etc...for battery component production. The mining process uses an awful lot of resources and in a way that is hard on our planet.

Another issue that requires close examination is the increased connection between government and advocacy pressure groups that promote certain agendas. After all, democratic government is supposed to be for the people...the general populace...the average citizen...not for the advocacy and pressure groups.

valhalla360

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Posted: 09/16/17 01:39am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

John & Angela wrote:



Tesla makes a race car? What small light car are you reffering to. They make family sedans as far as I know and none of which were designed for racing. Is this a prototype you are referring to?


Actually they started with the "roadster" which was a 2 seat sports car...so yeah.

But they are constantly putting out high performance media on the Model S implying it's a sports car even though it's a sedan...of course there are a lot of high performance sedans that people race.


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valhalla360

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Posted: 09/16/17 01:44am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

John & Angela wrote:



Well, I'm not sure how to respond to this. You seem pretty fixated with a family sedan not holding up to race car standards and seem convinced that capable engineers are not able to solve any of the issues you see are pertinent. I know little about any of this so I'll sit this one out. I do know a Tesla SUV does quite well pulling its rated load (5000pounds) under all normal conditions. Of course at a reduced range. I'll leave it at that.


Ok put them up against a Ford Focus (base model) and do a couple laps and see who wins.

If performance is irrelevant, that's fine but then why do they keep putting out the drag race video clips?

valhalla360

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Posted: 09/16/17 01:47am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

qtla9111 wrote:

It's obvious that the mindset of most people on Rv.net is old school petroleum and not being able to think out of the box. Elon Musk has opened a Pandora's box in terms of energy. It's been a long time coming and it will come. Look back at what people said about solar here on Rv.net just 10 years ago.


What has he done? In terms of drivetrain technology, he basically just scaled up a golf cart and used standard lithium batteries. The only thing different is he threw cost out the window and put in massive numbers of batteries to produce a very expensive cr.

10yrs ago solar was very much viable. Heck my boat has 200w of 20yr old solar panels. They still have significant limitations and are pretty much useless for propulsion power.

NJRVer

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Posted: 09/16/17 07:11am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Lessmore wrote:

John & Angela wrote:

time2roll wrote:

The tax credits to customers apply to ALL solar companies.
Tax credits for purchasing an EV go to ALL automotive manufacturers.

This is not a Tesla subsidy. ALL participants get same. ALL are welcome to join.


Very true. The other thing is how do we define a subsidy. Is a trillion dollar multi national Middle East war a subsidy? How much do nations pay every year to keep oil shipping lanes secure every year. Should oil companies be made responsable to pay security costs? If so, what would the cost of a barrel of oil be??

I think governments have a role to play in the development of some technologies. Just staying the course and burning fuel until it is all gone doesn't seem to be a good way forward.

JMHO


Being an older fellow, I recall activists started back in the '70's by saying we were going to run out of gas / oil soon, so we must look at another source of energy. Didn't happen of course, in fact in the decades since then, new oil finds seem to ever more prevalent on a very consistent basis.

In fact some modern scientists theorize that oil is a natural...sustainable... product of our our planet and with vastly improved, over the years emissions technology, oil does not seem to be the threat that it once was. As a result of all this, once the old mantra about oil/gas running out lost validity...as new oil discoveries continued. Then the revised advocacy/pressure group strategy of the planet being endangered, replaced it.

As far as maintaining security in shipping lanes,etc...this is done for a vast array of cargo, in addition to oil, that use these same shipping lanes. Piracy is after cargo...to negotiate as ransom...whether it be oil and /or other products is immaterial.

As far as electricity goes, it will become more expensive...mostly by increased taxes....if electricity becomes the primary 'fuel' for vehicles...governments will increase the taxes on electricity by a lot. I would say this is a given. There is no free lunch. Costs to charge electric vehicles will go up as electric vehicle use increases.

Other issues of concern would be accessing minerals (nickel for example) etc...for battery component production. The mining process uses an awful lot of resources and in a way that is hard on our planet.

Another issue that requires close examination is the increased connection between government and advocacy pressure groups that promote certain agendas. After all, democratic government is supposed to be for the people...the general populace...the average citizen...not for the advocacy and pressure groups.


Sounds like you agree with the fact that every industry practically relies on "farming the gov't" for money being you point out that piracy protection. Otherwise Walmart would have to supply its own navy to protect its own container ships.

John / Angela

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Posted: 09/16/17 07:21am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

valhalla360 wrote:

John & Angela wrote:



Well, I'm not sure how to respond to this. You seem pretty fixated with a family sedan not holding up to race car standards and seem convinced that capable engineers are not able to solve any of the issues you see are pertinent. I know little about any of this so I'll sit this one out. I do know a Tesla SUV does quite well pulling its rated load (5000pounds) under all normal conditions. Of course at a reduced range. I'll leave it at that.


Ok put them up against a Ford Focus (base model) and do a couple laps and see who wins.

If performance is irrelevant, that's fine but then why do they keep putting out the drag race video clips?


Well, tesla doesn't put out drag race videos, car enthusiasts do. Tesla doesn't spend much on advertising. With pretty much 450,000 reservations for cars (more than two years production) it wouldn't make sense.

qtla9111

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Posted: 09/16/17 08:37am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

valhalla360 wrote:

qtla9111 wrote:

It's obvious that the mindset of most people on Rv.net is old school petroleum and not being able to think out of the box. Elon Musk has opened a Pandora's box in terms of energy. It's been a long time coming and it will come. Look back at what people said about solar here on Rv.net just 10 years ago.


What has he done? In terms of drivetrain technology, he basically just scaled up a golf cart and used standard lithium batteries. The only thing different is he threw cost out the window and put in massive numbers of batteries to produce a very expensive cr.

10yrs ago solar was very much viable. Heck my boat has 200w of 20yr old solar panels. They still have significant limitations and are pretty much useless for propulsion power.


Yep, you're right. Why should we hope for something that might do a better job, help to clear the air, water and use less natural resources not to mention reduce noise pollution?


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FishOnOne

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Posted: 09/16/17 08:46am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

qtla9111 wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:

qtla9111 wrote:

It's obvious that the mindset of most people on Rv.net is old school petroleum and not being able to think out of the box. Elon Musk has opened a Pandora's box in terms of energy. It's been a long time coming and it will come. Look back at what people said about solar here on Rv.net just 10 years ago.


What has he done? In terms of drivetrain technology, he basically just scaled up a golf cart and used standard lithium batteries. The only thing different is he threw cost out the window and put in massive numbers of batteries to produce a very expensive cr.

10yrs ago solar was very much viable. Heck my boat has 200w of 20yr old solar panels. They still have significant limitations and are pretty much useless for propulsion power.


Yep, you're right. Why should we hope for something that might do a better job, help to clear the air, water and use less natural resources not to mention reduce noise pollution?


Instead of bashing each other why don't you boy's wait until Oct 26 to see what's being unveiled!


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John / Angela

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Posted: 09/16/17 09:15am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

qtla9111 wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:

qtla9111 wrote:

It's obvious that the mindset of most people on Rv.net is old school petroleum and not being able to think out of the box. Elon Musk has opened a Pandora's box in terms of energy. It's been a long time coming and it will come. Look back at what people said about solar here on Rv.net just 10 years ago.


What has he done? In terms of drivetrain technology, he basically just scaled up a golf cart and used standard lithium batteries. The only thing different is he threw cost out the window and put in massive numbers of batteries to produce a very expensive cr.

10yrs ago solar was very much viable. Heck my boat has 200w of 20yr old solar panels. They still have significant limitations and are pretty much useless for propulsion power.


Yep, you're right. Why should we hope for something that might do a better job, help to clear the air, water and use less natural resources not to mention reduce noise pollution?


Solar works fine for propulsion power. Just needs to be stored during the day and released to the vehicle at night. A solar arc like this would keep 4 average commuter vehicles powered up with n problems, conditions permitting of course. I have seen various versions of this. If power wasn't so cheap where we are I would be looking into one as an alternative to rooftop solar. And this kind of tech continues to drop in cost as well. If utilities ever get stupid with their pricing this kind of thing is a viable alternative for many of us.

http://www.envisionsolar.com/ev-arc/

[image]


Utilities have to be careful with their rates or some consumers will just make their own power. This is already happening and will only accelerate as solar and wind power production costs continue to fall below that of older methods such as coal etc.

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