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 > Tesla Semi truck unveil & test ride set for Oct 26th !

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hone eagle

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Posted: 09/16/17 10:26am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

These threads always bring out the dreamers


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wilber1

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Posted: 09/16/17 10:40am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

John & Angela wrote:

wilber1 wrote:

8.1 Van wrote:

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

Tesla can't even make one full lap around Nuremburg at full power in their small light car, and yet they are going to make a Semi Truck? Good luck with that!

Musk is farming the government for money. If it wasn't for the billions of dollars that the government gave him, we would not be having this discussion. [emoticon] [emoticon]

2017 Tesla Model S P100D First Test: A New Record — 0-60 MPH in 2.28 Seconds!

Show me a link to the billions given to him.


0 to 60, then what? We know electric motors make massive torque from zero RPM so they are going to put up impressive acceleration times but the S can't go flat out for one lap on a 14 mlle road course. Of course road cars are seldom driven flat out but it does point to the limitations of present EV technology.


Is that really a realistic limitation though. Just sayin.


Probably more telling of what a vehicle is capable of than a simple 0 to 60 time.

That said, I think EV's are going to have a big place in the future.


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Lessmore

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Posted: 09/16/17 10:42am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

hone eagle wrote:

These threads always bring out the dreamers


The dreamers and the advocates. [emoticon]

Lessmore

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Posted: 09/16/17 10:46am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

John & Angela wrote:

qtla9111 wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:

qtla9111 wrote:

It's obvious that the mindset of most people on Rv.net is old school petroleum and not being able to think out of the box. Elon Musk has opened a Pandora's box in terms of energy. It's been a long time coming and it will come. Look back at what people said about solar here on Rv.net just 10 years ago.


What has he done? In terms of drivetrain technology, he basically just scaled up a golf cart and used standard lithium batteries. The only thing different is he threw cost out the window and put in massive numbers of batteries to produce a very expensive cr.

10yrs ago solar was very much viable. Heck my boat has 200w of 20yr old solar panels. They still have significant limitations and are pretty much useless for propulsion power.


Yep, you're right. Why should we hope for something that might do a better job, help to clear the air, water and use less natural resources not to mention reduce noise pollution?


Solar works fine for propulsion power. Just needs to be stored during the day and released to the vehicle at night. A solar arc like this would keep 4 average commuter vehicles powered up with n problems, conditions permitting of course. I have seen various versions of this. If power wasn't so cheap where we are I would be looking into one as an alternative to rooftop solar. And this kind of tech continues to drop in cost as well. If utilities ever get stupid with their pricing this kind of thing is a viable alternative for many of us.

http://www.envisionsolar.com/ev-arc/

[image]


Utilities have to be careful with their rates or some consumers will just make their own power. This is already happening and will only accelerate as solar and wind power production costs continue to fall below that of older methods such as coal etc.


No they won't.

The great majority of people won't 'make' their own electric power. Right now you can make your own biofuel....the great majority don't and won't. People in today's society are content to grumble a bit and buy 'fuel'...and/or electricity ready made.

John or Angela, given this is a towing forum, what do you tow with your electric vehicles ?

John / Angela

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Posted: 09/16/17 11:12am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Lessmore wrote:

John & Angela wrote:

qtla9111 wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:

qtla9111 wrote:

It's obvious that the mindset of most people on Rv.net is old school petroleum and not being able to think out of the box. Elon Musk has opened a Pandora's box in terms of energy. It's been a long time coming and it will come. Look back at what people said about solar here on Rv.net just 10 years ago.


What has he done? In terms of drivetrain technology, he basically just scaled up a golf cart and used standard lithium batteries. The only thing different is he threw cost out the window and put in massive numbers of batteries to produce a very expensive cr.

10yrs ago solar was very much viable. Heck my boat has 200w of 20yr old solar panels. They still have significant limitations and are pretty much useless for propulsion power.


Yep, you're right. Why should we hope for something that might do a better job, help to clear the air, water and use less natural resources not to mention reduce noise pollution?


Solar works fine for propulsion power. Just needs to be stored during the day and released to the vehicle at night. A solar arc like this would keep 4 average commuter vehicles powered up with n problems, conditions permitting of course. I have seen various versions of this. If power wasn't so cheap where we are I would be looking into one as an alternative to rooftop solar. And this kind of tech continues to drop in cost as well. If utilities ever get stupid with their pricing this kind of thing is a viable alternative for many of us.

http://www.envisionsolar.com/ev-arc/

[image]


Utilities have to be careful with their rates or some consumers will just make their own power. This is already happening and will only accelerate as solar and wind power production costs continue to fall below that of older methods such as coal etc.


No they won't.

The great majority of people won't 'make' their own electric power. Right now you can make your own biofuel....the great majority don't and won't. People in today's society are content to grumble a bit and buy 'fuel'...and/or electricity ready made.

John or Angela, given this is a towing forum, what do you tow with your electric vehicles ?


We don't tow anything. But this is a forum and forums contain polite conversation...and conversations evolve and expand. Some personal EV's have tow ratings so why not larger commercial vehicles.


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Turtle n Peeps

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Posted: 09/16/17 11:36am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Quote:

Some personal EV's have tow ratings so why not larger commercial vehicles.


I've already explained this. Let me try one more time.

EV's do not scale well. They just don't have the energy density.

This means there is a mile of difference between an EV car that takes about 30 HP to go down a road at 60 MPH and an EV semi that weights 80K and tows up a mountain side requiring 500 HP for minutes at a time.

My truck has a range of a little over 300 miles when towing and takes about 3 minutes to fill up to go another 300 miles.

Would you own a diesel tow vehicle that has a 5 gallon tank in it and takes a couple of hours to fill it up?


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Posted: 09/16/17 11:55am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

Quote:

Some personal EV's have tow ratings so why not larger commercial vehicles.


I've already explained this. Let me try one more time.

EV's do not scale well. They just don't have the energy density.

This means there is a mile of difference between an EV car that takes about 30 HP to go down a road at 60 MPH and an EV semi that weights 80K and tows up a mountain side requiring 500 HP for minutes at a time.

My truck has a range of a little over 300 miles when towing and takes about 3 minutes to fill up to go another 300 miles.

Would you own a diesel tow vehicle that has a 5 gallon tank in it and takes a couple of hours to fill it up?


Of course not. But an SUV to take a boat to the lake or maybe an RPOD for local camping would be handy. If you need a truck buy a truck. Not everyone needs a truck. People are already using EV's to tow boats, utility trailers, even small travel trailers. Depends on the persons needs, how far they have to tow etc.

Re the EV semi. What you are saying is it can't be done. I actually don't know as I have no back ground in that kind of engineering. I'll just wait and see what they come out with. Should be interesting.

hone eagle

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Posted: 09/16/17 12:35pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

You don't need a back ground in engineering .High school chemistry and the periodic table is your answer.

using the known elements (periodic table) and knowing batteries need the elements with the largest (potential) difference to generate or storage of electrons i.e. the element furtherest from each other - no new magic battery is on the horizon to make the fevered dreams of the 'save the planet' crowd, energy density is growing but the heat barrier looms .
The best we can hope for is fast FAST charging ,and that makes me cringe -visions of crispy soccer moms all over suburbia.

stsmark

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Posted: 09/16/17 12:43pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I agree with a previous comment that it will be based on swappable battery packs done by robotics. Possibly collocated with the Supercharger network.
As the Zen master said, we'll see.

John / Angela

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Posted: 09/16/17 12:59pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

hone eagle wrote:

You don't need a back ground in engineering .High school chemistry and the periodic table is your answer.

using the known elements (periodic table) and knowing batteries need the elements with the largest (potential) difference to generate or storage of electrons i.e. the element furtherest from each other - no new magic battery is on the horizon to make the fevered dreams of the 'save the planet' crowd, energy density is growing but the heat barrier looms .
The best we can hope for is fast FAST charging ,and that makes me cringe -visions of crispy soccer moms all over suburbia.


So not following. Soccer moms driving semis? If you are talking about regular family cars or SUV's there are already lots of them being driven by "soccer moms". I haven't read about any being "crispified". Most of them probably charge at home. But if they do use a DCFC it is pretty simple stuff. Connect the connecter to the car and push start. We do it regularly when on longer trips although for the most part we charge 95 percent at home while we are sleeping. Electric vehicles are not the answer for everyones driving needs but they do quite well for some. I suspect it will be the same for commercial EV semis. They will work for some applications and not for others.

Also you seem to feel that people who drive EV's are part of a "save the planet crowd". That has not been my observation. Many of us just like how they drive, low cost of maintenance and fuel, good handling because of low centre of gravity, very quiet, never a smelly garage, no oil spots on the garage floor, preheating or cooling by smart phone while it is sitting in the garage. etc etc. For some of us they are just the right choice. No need to affix labels in a polite society. EV's are not good at being ICE vehicles, but they are very good at being, well, EV's.

JMHO

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