Boondocking safety-Are you armed?

[drmopar]

Looking for suggestions regarding Boondocking safety. With California RV camping spaces tough to get, I have been looking at secluded, boondocking areas and issues. Thanks

[doc_brown]

The overwhelming majority of deaths due to Guns in the US are the result of gang shootings, Chicago for example. Beating a dead horse here, criminals will always have guns because they do not abide by the laws. How are you going to eliminate all the guns from the US? Change the Constitution by eliminating the second amendment would result in law abiding citizens without guns and the criminals would still have them. Leave the hills of Santa Cruz and spend some time in Stockton, or downtown Sacramento and see what the violence is like in the inner cities not too far from you.

[pnichols]

OK then ... you that believe in easy gun access .... what is/are the reason/reasons that most other modern countries don't have the gun deaths that the U.S. does?

If there are good reasons, then maybe we in U.S. should move and live elsewhere because widespread gun ownership here sure isn't working. :h

[pianotuna]

It worked in Australia.

Most of the deaths are not caused by career criminals.

doc brown wrote:


Reduce the gun count? Confiscate or voluntary turn in. Neither will work. Also do you think criminals will abide by the policy? They are already illegally possessing the weapon because they did not go through the legal process of purchasing. Instant use of lethal force? There are still knives, homemade explosives, and yes pots/pans, fist and cars. I'm not sure what the solution is to control violence in general since that's been part of human history. But I know how I'm going to minimize the risk of being a victim.

[doc_brown]

pnichols wrote:
Wyoming also is the state with the lowest population, while at the same time having a fairly large land area: Which means it's average population density is very low - which means it's people are on average further away from each other than in other states - which means it's people are less likely to be an irritant to each other than they might be in other states.

Due to the above characteristics and if one can take it's winters, Wyoming may be a great place to live in which guns are not even required "for safety".

The real trick is to reduce the U.S. gun count low enough everywhere such that irritated folks in any state can't use guns to address their irritations ... as is the case in many other countries of the world where their citizens are safe from the use of instant lethal force among themselves to settle things.

Reduce the gun count? Confiscate or voluntary turn in. Neither will work. Also do you think criminals will abide by the policy? They are already illegally possessing the weapon because they did not go through the legal process of purchasing. Instant use of lethal force? There are still knives, homemade explosives, and yes pots/pans, fist and cars. I'm not sure what the solution is to control violence in general since that's been part of human history. But I know how I'm going to minimize the risk of being a victim.

[memtb]

captnjack wrote:

memtb wrote:

pianotuna wrote:
How strange that there are more gun shot deaths per capita in USA than in any of the other G7 nations. Yet the gun "carrying" USA members here feel "safer".

All the highest crime areas of the US have the most stringent gun control laws. Care to guess why! Here in Wyoming, we have the highest per capita firearms ownership of any of the 50 states....yet we are among the lowest in crime rates! In Switzerland firearm ownership is required...military assault rifles (Sig 550) are issued to all men above 20 years of age (unless deemed unqualified) and participate in the militia. Switzerland has the lowest crime rate in the world,

One of the most dangerous places in America....a gun free zone!

This is not true. Only those in the military are issued guns, which are returned or purchased upon leaving. There is no ownership requirement. Guns are not issued to every male over 20 years of age. They do have regulations anThe Militia System
In Switzerland, military service is compulsory for all able-bodied men, and alternative civil service is only available for conscientious objectors. Those unwilling to serve must pay a fine.[32] Conscription begins at age nineteen,[33] and the duty to serve ends between the ages of thirty-four and fifty, depending on the rank of the militiaman.[34]

Militiamen are issued personal equipment, which includes a personal weapon and ammunition.[35] The militiaman is authorized to keep the weapon in his home,[36] unless he decides to deposit it in his unit’s armory.[37] When the militiaman retires, he may keep the personal weapon,[38] provided it has been properly maintained by the qualified technicians of his military unit.[39]

If there is danger of the abuse or improper handling or maintenance of the weapon, the commandant of the military unit will confiscate the personal weapon.[40] The police, courts, and prosecutors may inform the commandant of circumstances that call for the confiscation of the weapon.[41] The abuse or mishandling of weapons is punishable either by a disciplinary measure or by imprisonment or a fine, depending on the circumstances.[42]d restrictions for gun ownership.
But you are correct that there is a high rate of gun ownership and a low rate of crime.

The Militia System
In Switzerland, military service is compulsory for all able-bodied men, and alternative civil service is only available for conscientious objectors. Those unwilling to serve must pay a fine.[32] Conscription begins at age nineteen,[33] and the duty to serve ends between the ages of thirty-four and fifty, depending on the rank of the militiaman.[34]

Militiamen are issued personal equipment, which includes a personal weapon and ammunition.[35] The militiaman is authorized to keep the weapon in his home,[36] unless he decides to deposit it in his unit’s armory.[37] When the militiaman retires, he may keep the personal weapon,[38] provided it has been properly maintained by the qualified technicians of his military unit.[39]

If there is danger of the abuse or improper handling or maintenance of the weapon, the commandant of the military unit will confiscate the personal weapon.[40] The police, courts, and prosecutors may inform the commandant of circumstances that call for the confiscation of the weapon.[41] The abuse or mishandling of weapons is punishable either by a disciplinary measure or by imprisonment or a fine, depending on the circumstances.[42]


capthjack, While I may have misinterpreted the Swiss Militia Requirements ( and may still be), it appears that I’m not very far off.

[BendOrLarry]

My wife and I both have CWP's. Never have felt in danger boon docking, but we both always legally carry. I pity the fool that tries to mess with our camping time!

[memtb]

pnichols wrote:
Wyoming also is the state with the lowest population, while at the same time having a fairly large land area: Which means it's average population density is very low - which means it's people are on average further away from each other than in other states - which means it's people are less likely to be an irritant to each other than they might be in other states.

Due to the above characteristics and if one can take it's winters, Wyoming may be a great place to live in which guns are not even required "for safety".

The real trick is to reduce the U.S. gun count low enough everywhere such that irritated folks in any state can't use guns to address their irritations ... as is the case in many other countries of the world where their citizens are safe from the use of instant lethal force among themselves to settle things.

Firearms are merely a tool of opportunity! And while they can be quite effective, total abolition of firearms will do little to stop “crimes of passion”! Around 2 thousand people are killed annually in the USA by means other than firearms. If firearms ceased to exist, the murder rate, by other means, will go up dramatically.

A firearm is like any other tool...misused,it is dangerous.

Also, a person outnumbered, or a person unarmed against an armed (knife, club,rock,etc.), or an elderly person against a fit assailant, stand little to zero chance of fending off an attack. An elderly person, in limited physical condition can (and do many times per year) defend themselves against a superior threat!!!!

Depending upon ones interpretation of the Second Ammendment, firearm ownership
is to protect the citizens from the government. As much or more important today as when written. As a defense against an assailant, it is merely a persons right to defend yourself or another. If Force is used in that defense.... you must be able to prove the validity of that claim.
Wyoming.... the police are generally “many” minutes away! You must be prepared to take care of yourself.

[pnichols]

Wyoming also is the state with the lowest population, while at the same time having a fairly large land area: Which means it's average population density is very low - which means it's people are on average further away from each other than in other states - which means it's people are less likely to be an irritant to each other than they might be in other states.

Due to the above characteristics and if one can take it's winters, Wyoming may be a great place to live in which guns are not even required "for safety".

The real trick is to reduce the U.S. gun count low enough everywhere such that irritated folks in any state can't use guns to address their irritations ... as is the case in many other countries of the world where their citizens are safe from the use of instant lethal force among themselves to settle things.

[captnjack]

memtb wrote:

pianotuna wrote:
How strange that there are more gun shot deaths per capita in USA than in any of the other G7 nations. Yet the gun "carrying" USA members here feel "safer".

All the highest crime areas of the US have the most stringent gun control laws. Care to guess why! Here in Wyoming, we have the highest per capita firearms ownership of any of the 50 states....yet we are among the lowest in crime rates! In Switzerland firearm ownership is required...military assault rifles (Sig 550) are issued to all men above 20 years of age (unless deemed unqualified) and participate in the militia. Switzerland has the lowest crime rate in the world,

One of the most dangerous places in America....a gun free zone!

This is not true. Only those in the military are issued guns, which are returned or purchased upon leaving. There is no ownership requirement. Guns are not issued to every male over 20 years of age. They do have regulations and restrictions for gun ownership.
But you are correct that there is a high rate of gun ownership and a low rate of crime.

[Old-Biscuit]

doc brown wrote:

toedtoes wrote:

Old-Biscuit wrote:

toedtoes wrote:

doc brown wrote:
Sweet! Eight pages and we are still on. Interesting, the antgunners will never convince the progunners and visa versa. I carry whether you like it or not, you'll never know I have one but you better pray that when you are in a really bad situation someone is nearby and willing to help. Help could involve a firearm, not necessarily. But if a firearm is required you'll be thankful the armed citizen was willing to help. No law says he has to. As my neighbor in my sticks and bricks neighborhood who knows I carry and knows my house is stocked well asked, "if I'm in trouble over here will you come and help?" My answer, "I'd call 911" , but he says "that will take about 10 minutes for the police to arrive", "sorry why don't you get a weapon for your families safety", " no way I would never own a gun". There you go, I hear that quite often. I refuse to be a victim.

I protect myself. I do not depend on a stranger carrying to keep me safe. Likewise, I don't expect an armed neighbor to come to my rescue. I take precautions as I see fit, not as others dictate.

I am willing to accept the "risk" of not having a gun. I refuse to be a victim too. I just don't believe I need a gun for that.

As part of discussion......
What do you use to protect yourself?

First and foremost - my brain.

Second - my attitude.

Third - my dogs.

Fourth - whatever I have handy.

I have never had to go to the fourth - the other three have always been successful. And yes, I have been in situations that were dangerous (two vagrants fresh off a train trying to bash in my front door with a railroad tie, etc.).

Agree on first, always be aware
Agree on second, attitude showing confidence
Don't have a dog
Agree on fourth, my gun is always handy

First....YEP got one and I USE it

Second....YEP got a Great Attitude. Friendly/helpful BUT no sign of weakness and can turn that attitude when needed

Third....Got one. She's friendly UNTIL person messes up

Forth.....Definitely use whatever is handy. And that most likely with be a handgun (pipe, brick, rock, 2X4 etc are all options also)

So we really are not ALL THAT DIFFERENT :B

[toedtoes]

Testudo wrote:

2oldman wrote:
In 15 years I've never felt threatened. Criminals are lazy, they generally don't drive to secluded places.

Ditto... My wife is always whining that crazy killers are going to 'get us'. The places where the people are is what you want to _avoid_. Recent catastrophe in Las Vegas - - case in point...

A neighbor is more likely to kill you in a disagreement over a garden hose than someone who goes to the trouble to find you in some oubliette.

Watch your back...

While I agree with this, I think the wording is off a touch.

I think most people are more worried about an attack of opportunity. Neither the neighbor nor someone "who goes to the trouble to find you" would be such an attack (the wording suggests that both are specifically targeting YOU).

So, I think it should be "you're more likely to be attacked by opportunity in a populated area than you are in some oubliette."

There are very few situations where someone was attacked by a person(s) (outside Hollywood) while camping (as in traditional camping and not overnighting in parking lots, etc.) - and much lower for attacks of opportunity versus other attacks (e.g., the victim wandered into a marijuana field, etc. - which are still much lower than in the alley in town).

[2oldman]

Testudo wrote:
...in some oubliette.

I learned a new word today. Thanks!

[Testudo]

2oldman wrote:
In 15 years I've never felt threatened. Criminals are lazy, they generally don't drive to secluded places.

Ditto... My wife is always whining that crazy killers are going to 'get us'. The places where the people are is what you want to _avoid_. Recent catastrophe in Las Vegas - - case in point...

A neighbor is more likely to kill you in a disagreement over a garden hose than someone who goes to the trouble to find you in some oubliette.

Watch your back...

[frizzen]

momentum rv wrote:
Don't ask don't tell.

If the bad guys believe all us campers are armed, the safer we all are.

If they believe half of us are armed we will all be safer.