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Mexican Diesel Fuel - Sulfur Levels Update

Ed_White
Explorer
Explorer
Update Regarding Diesel Fuel in Mexico - September 27, 2017

The Mexico Snowbird Season for 2017/18 is fast approaching, so here is an update regarding sulfur levels in Mexican diesel fuel and the potential for negative impacts on late model diesels. Please note that I am not a Pemex employee, so I can not guarantee that information provided by Pemex about the availability of ULSD is completely reliable, but lab testing of some random fuel samples, and data from diesel owners driving in Mexico, does appear to confirm the latest Pemex information.

Several things have become abundantly clear over the 10+ years since I first began researching this topic and started collecting data from owners of a wide range of diesel powered vehicles:

1.
All diesels up to and including the 2010 model year, irrespective of manufacturer or vehicle type, have no significant problems from the use of higher sulfur Mexican diesel fuel (LSD). The most noticeable โ€œsymptomโ€, only apparent on 2007.5 through 2010 model years, MIGHT be occasional blue smokey exhaust during regeneration cycles. (Regeneration cycles burn soot out of the Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) from time to time, and blue smoke can occur when sulfur deposits are mixed with the soot). The majority of owners though will not even see blue smokey regenerations, so will be unaware whether or not their vehicles are burning Mexican diesel.
IN SUMMARY: If you own a diesel vehicle of any model year prior to 2011 you can use Mexican diesel fuel without taking any special precautions.

2.
There is a POTENTIAL for 2011 and later diesel vehicles, the ones that use Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF), to experience problems while using Mexican LSD. (Dodge RAMs of 2013 and later model years fall into this category.

Within this group:

(a)
CLASS A MOTORHOMES:
I have never received a report of any Class A diesel pusher motorhome having any type of sulfur-in-fuel related problem. This is probably because these vehicles are very heavy, which keeps exhaust gas temperatures elevated, discouraging sulfur compounds from settling out in the exhaust/emissions system. In addition, their exhaust systems are relatively short, so they heat up quickly and stay hot, again discouraging the deposit of sulfur compounds that could interfere with the functioning of the emissions system.
IN SUMMARY: Based on all of the data available at this time, Class A diesel pushers have no negative reactions to the use of Mexican LSD

(b)
SPRINTERS:
Sprinters are a very large sub-group of motorhomes that are commonly seen in Mexico. They are relatively heavy for their size, so their exhaust/emissions systems stay hot, which discourages sulfur deposits. However, I have two verified reports of post-2010 Sprinters going in to modes where the number of starts is being restricted, with warnings of a shutdown after those starts have been used. In both cases though the vehicles โ€œhealedโ€ themselves, presumably after a regeneration cycle burned soot and sulfur out of the exhaust/emissions system.

Based on discussions with the owners of those Sprinters, the evidence suggests that Sprinters will not typically have any issues using Mexican LSD unless the vehicle is used for numerous short trips for shopping, restaurant visits, etc after reaching a winter destination. These short trips do not fully heat the exhaust system, which allows sulfur compounds to collect in the Selective Catalytic Reducer (SCR).
IN SUMMARY: Sprinters very rarely experience serious issues with Mexican LSD, and probably only when the vehicle is used for frequent short trips that do not fully heat the exhaust system. Owners planning to use their Sprinters for local transport once they reach their final destination should try to carry extra ULSD and use a 50/50 mixture with Mexican LSD after reaching the final destination. A 50/50 mixture of ULSD with Mexican LSD has been shown to cause no sulfur related issues across a wide range of vehicle types.

(c)
DODGE RAM PICKUPS:
Dodge RAM pickups have been the least likely diesel pickups to experience any issues with Mexican diesel fuel (LSD). The most frequently reported issue has been excessive consumption of DEF in 2013 and later models as the emissions system injects more and more DEF to compensate for the sulfur contamination of the Selective Catalytic Reducer (SCR) between regenerations.

There is, however, some uncertainty going forward because Dodge has apparently recently negotiated a settlement with the EPA over allegations of improper reporting/monitoring of emissions. It is my understanding that Dodge has agreed to correct the โ€œproblemโ€ by reprogramming trucks during normal service visits to dealerships. What is not yet known is how the reprogrammed trucks will react to the presence of sulfur in the fuel, so Dodge owners need to be aware that there is a potential for new fuel-related problems.
IN SUMMARY: Dodge RAMS have generally been symptom free while using Mexican LSD but there is a new potential for issues because of emissions programming updates by Dodge. It may be wise for 2013 and later Dodge owners to obtain a tuner, such as the one made by Edge Products, that can force a regeneration cycle to burn sulfur out of the system. A regeneration should then be triggered if any emissions related warnings are displayed.

(d)
FORD PICKUPS:
Ford diesels generally have not exhibited any issues while using Mexican LSD, but I have three verified cases of emissions related COMPLETE SHUT DOWNS after the vehicles were used locally in Mexico for extended periods on Mexican LSD after arriving at a winter destination.
IN SUMMARY: Ford diesels are usually symptom free while using Mexican LSD but there is a potential for issues if the vehicle is driven on short trips on Mexican LSD once the winter destination has been reached. It would be wise for 2011 and later Ford owners to obtain a tuner, such as the one made by Edge Products, that can force a regeneration cycle to burn sulfur out of the system. A regeneration should then be triggered if any emissions related warnings are displayed.

(e)
DURAMAX POWERED PICKUPS (GMC and CHEVROLET):
Duramax powered diesels are the most sensitive vehicles to sulfur in Mexican fuel. They often enter speed limitation modes, and can end up in limp mode (5mph) if special precautions are not taken. (Almost as if Duramax is OVER-reporting emissions compared to other diesels). Owners of 2011 and later Duramax diesels should contact me at whitetmp@aol.com if they are planning to travel in to Mexico so that I can make them aware of special precautions that need to be taken. Unfortunately, as of the time of writing, I have not become aware of any tuners available at the retail level that can trigger regenerations on Duramax diesels.

3.
HERE IS THE LATEST INFORMATION REGARDING THE AVAILABILITY OF ULSD IN MEXICO:

(a)
It is NOT POSSIBLE to determine whether fuel is ULSD or LSD by looking at it or sniffing it. The ONLY way to make a reliable determination is with a laboratory test. I have personally collected and run lab tests on samples of fuel from Mexico so I know this is true. If someone says he or she can identify the fuel type without a lab test you need to be skeptical.

(b)
The Mexican Government has set the end of 2018 as the cutoff date for Pemex to supply ULSD at every station in Mexico. If Pemex can not upgrade it's own refineries by then, it has to export the fuel produced by those refineries and import ULSD for domestic use. At this stage it appears that 3 of Pemex's refineries have already been upgraded or the upgrades are close to completion, and more are currently being worked on. As a result of the already completed upgrades, ULSD is becoming more readily available and there are now large areas and corridors where ULSD is standard.
NOTE: It is commonly the case that a station will be pumping ULSD without the knowledge of the attendants, and there will not be any label to indicate that the fuel is ULSD (UBA). Do NOT trust any claims by station attendants that they have, or have not, got ULSD (UBA) at the pumps unless they can show you the fuel manifestโ€“ they typically have NO IDEA where their fuel originates.

(c)
A contact at Pemex recently sent me a copy of the official Pemex list of stations already carrying ULSD. The list is arranged by state and then city or town within the state. I can provide that list to owners of vehicles which may be sensitive to sulfur in the fuel, specifically Duramax owners.

(d)
There is reliable evidence that there is presently ULSD at every Pemex in the Northern Baja, down to and including Jesus Maria, about 38 kms north of the border with the Southern Baja. In additon, all stations in the Yucatan are listed as having ULSD, and the main corridors running from the US Border to Mexico City are mostly stocked with ULSD.

(e)
I have received recent reports from travellers who say they have seen Gulf and Esso stations now open in Mexico, so the marketplace is presently undergoing a major transformation. As a result of these changes, I am convinced that Mexico will indeed fully convert to ULSD by the end of 2018.

Ted (Ed) White
whitetmp@aol.com
September 2017
83 REPLIES 83

Beentherefixedt
Explorer
Explorer
qtla9111 wrote:
Ed White, you're fighting an uphill battle. However, your battle seems much easier to win than mine.

Keep up the fight. It appears you know your business well and the majority have faith in what you do. Good on ya!


Yes, ED you know your stuff but shame on you for not understanding that the "old Mexico Hands" know everything and cannot be swayed by facts, reason, experience, or superior knowledge.

There is a "triumvirate" of them who dominate this forum and make it a difficult place to visit for many.

I for one am tired of long, rambling psuedo-technical posts by one famous one in particular and the constant negativity that suffuses their every post. Everyone is wrong but them.

But keep your chin up and keep providing the great info you do.

While I appreciate a "light touch" by Moderators I for one think it's way past time to take a harder look at these "Old Mexico Hands" and their posts, their overall effect and perhaps ask them to be a bit more accepting and far less ubiquitous.

Talleyho69
Moderator
Moderator
Wonderful news, thank you!

Ed_White
Explorer
Explorer
OK, here we are on Christmas eve, and NOT A SINGLE CASE OF SULFUR-IN-FUEL PROBLEMS reported to me since the start of the 2018/19 Snowbird season in early October. I would typically have assisted at least a couple of dozen owners by now.

This is, of course, completely consistent with the information I have been posting since mid-summer - the days of sulfur-in-fuel problems in Mexico are OVER. The diesel fuel is now universally ULSD.

So, feel free to finally sell your old worn out 2006 and earlier diesel trucks and motorhomes and upgrade to 2018 or 2019 versions.

It goes without saying that I'm not expecting to have to publish any sulfur-in-fuel updates for NEXT season.

Merry Christmas.

MEXICOWANDERER
Explorer
Explorer
CHECK YOUR MAP ED. I agree with you, however MANZANILLO is a full day's SOUTH of Puerto Vallarta . SOUTH. Not North, east or straight up.

The object of a study is to offer CORRECT INFORMATION to a reader. When the director of Pemex makes a public statement, I tend to take it as being accurate. When Pemex's USA financial advisor MOODYs makes not only a statement but a finding of facts public it over rides "Foster Wheeler".

When I read in La Voz de Michoacan that SEMPRA ENERGY was denied a permit to build at the port, and my son-in-law tells me that caused a loss of jobs and therefore a local scandal, what am I to believe?

I believe Xavier and I believe Ernesto. And the director of Pemex and Moody. Read the information for yourself, I could care less about some kind of personality contest. I am an engineer. And trust me, de-bunking myths (battery manufacturers) for thirty years I know what politics are involved. I fight bunk with facts. Documentation. And similar to my testing of over 100 dispensers of gasolineras in over 100 franquicias in 1994 the meeting with Paul Carroll of The Wall Street Journal in Mexico and the publishing of those results in that Newspaper in October of that year, the UBA issue is easy to figure out.

ACCURACY.

Not one heater not one catalyst reformer, not one H2S extraction tower has EVER been delivered to Mexico. And Mexico according to the director of MITTAL the national steel company has any plans to erect an electric furnace which is key to manufacture these refinery components. That too is public knowledge. Refinery vessels that deal with elevated pressures and temperatures needs, nay DEMANDS special steel which Mexican steel mills at MONTCLOVA and LAZARO CARDENAS are incapable of manufacturing. The vessels would have to be imported. And key to that is money. Pemex does not have the budget allotted for it.

So what? The fact is and this means the bottom line for travelers and RV'ers that the coastal strip south of MANZANILLO to GUATEMALA provides standard made in Mexico diesel. Big freakin' deal for 99% of visitors.

This SHOULD BE a mere advisory for the very few folks who travel that area in brand new diesels. And not some kind of warped personality oriented yes/no "contest" that yields results of no benefit to anyone.

Therefore challenge the accuracy of THE DIRECTOR OF PEMEX's public statement and then turn around and CHALLENGE the accuracy of MOODY's One of the most respected financial analysts in the world. Do not challenge me. My interests lie solely in the world of two senior PEMEX engineers who are excited that the refinacion at TULA may be getting an ALKYLATION plant. Both of these guys are specialists in the handling of iso-butane and a domestic alkylation plant means the possibility of Pemex manufacturing world class piston engine 80 Low Lead and possibly 100 Low lead fuel. In all the various fractionation and hydrotreating processes, including catalyst reforming and "cracking" the process of alkylation remains one of my pet hobbies. It DEMANDS copious amounts of H2SO4 (sulfuric acid and that means utilization of extracted sulfur for conversion. Get the tie-in here?

Sadly ZERO EFFORT has been made in Mexico to construct a sulfur conversion plant of the type and size needed to process MOLTEN SULFUR into H2SO4 then trucked back to a refinery as processed concentrated sulfuric acid. Due to distances, Mexico would need three such plants perhaps in the bajio to manufacture alkylate for piston powered aircraft 95% of which are commercial rather than for privately owned aircraft.

Ernesto was disappointed when his planned tour and meeting of the Shell Oil / Pemex Deer Park joint venture refinery was cancelled due to the hurricane disaster in Texas. But he said it looks like spring of 2019 the meeting is on again. This refinery is one of the largest in the world, and over fifty senior engineers are going to attend. My old friend at Fluor Corporation, Don Joost passed away in the 1980's and I used to immensely enjoy talking refinery process control with him. FLUOR CORP to me is one of the principal refinery design and construction coordinators in the world.

To assuage any doubts a reader may have at this point, please refer to the links in this thread. I cannot and will not reveal the true names of my engineer friends because the penalty for revealing proprietary facts about Pemex without permission would result in termination and prison. PEMEX is incredibly sensitive about information. I was interrogated by security at the Salamanca refinacion about not possessing a tape recorder or camera before being issued a clip on visitor's ID and green visitors hard hat.

Cheers

Talleyho69
Moderator
Moderator
Maybe if we all keep working on it..... Thanks!

qtla9111
Nomad
Nomad
This has been the same over the years trying to convince people that:

Mexico had ATMs (first installed in 1972)
Pemex stations were truly franchises
Mexico is not a third-world country
Mexico has the same number of people living in poverty as our neighbor to the north
Murder rates are similar between the U.S. and Mexico
Mexico has a different system of calculating the minimum wage
Mexicoโ€™s real name is the United States of Mexico
Mexicans Donโ€™t Celebrate 5 de Mayo
Mexico is in North America
You will be kidnapped

. . . and yes I understand and recognize the meaning of "per capita" and so on to ad nauseam.

It's tough trying to break habits and myths about Mexico.
2005 Dodge Durango Hemi
2008 Funfinder 230DS
Living and Boondocking Mexico Blog

Talleyho69
Moderator
Moderator
Thank you SO much for all of the information you have and are providing.

It's unfortunate that there are doubters.

Moderator

Ed_White
Explorer
Explorer
It sure seems like I have to go through a huge p---ing match on this forum every year, even though, YEAR AFTER YEAR, my information has been 100% correct in predicting what issues, if any, would be present for owners of late model diesels. In 11 years of my work on this project, NOT A SINGLE NAYSAYER and NOT A SINGLE PROPHET OF DOOM, has been correct.

At this stage, I'm not particularly interested in yet another p----ing match, even though I have plenty of documentation, including a copy of a Pemex delivery slip to a station in Puerto Vallarta showing DUBA delivery, and reports from Mexico by HUNDREDS of drivers of late model diesel vehicles.

I'll just post one item here today, because it comes from a source outside of my contacts and from outside of Pemex. It can be found at this link:

http://arendal.com.mx/en/?project=duba-salina-cruz

As you can see, it is a confirmation from Arendal Engineering, which I believe is a subsidiary of Foster Wheeler, stating that the Mexican Salina Cruz refinery desulfuring upgrade (to allow it to produce ULSD) has been completed.

Here is a link to the 2014 original Foster Wheeler announcement that they had the contract and it would be finished in early 2018:

https://www.ogj.com/articles/2014/10/details-emerge-on-pemex-s-salina-cruz-refinery-upgrade.html

MEXICOWANDERER
Explorer
Explorer
Moody's has a very interesting piece about why Pemex despite loud proclamations has done nothing at all in five years to modernize or upgrade it's refineries to produce UBA diesel. In fact south of Manzanillo all the way to the Guatemalan border -- Morelia, Chilpnacingo, and Tuxtla Gutierrez included...

100% of the diesel sold is regular refined in Mexico diesel. Owners of brand new vehicles that demand only ULSD should take this fact into travel plans.

Read the very bottom link. Not only is the myth of 100% UBA diesel Mexico de-bunked, it explains how and why this happened. Only the extreme south west Pacific area is affected. A very small percentage of RV'ers travel this area except perhaps for San Cristobal de Las Casas

The revelation of this should have a very minor impact on travel plans to the country. Nevertheless it exists and cannot be ignored.

Any argument to this should be made to the director of Pemex and to Moody's, who is Petroleos Mexicanos prime extraneous financial advisor.

MEXICOWANDERER
Explorer
Explorer
In order to make the question clear this needs a yes or no answer...

Did you take fuel samples in Puerto Vallarta, Manzanillo, Lazaro Cardenas, Acapulco, Salina Cruz, Chilpancingo, Morelia, Tuxtla Gutierrez...?

I am an engineer by temperament.

What clarification does, is eliminate doubt.

I would tend to put weight on the CEO's information because it is his butt that is in the hot seat. Why make himself look bad? There is INTENSE PRESSURE to make Mexico 100% UBA in all comistibles. Xavier's word is unimpeachable. He has been dead-on accurate for the last six years.

There "seems to be" resistance from the government? Pemex? about reducing output of diesel of the Salina Cruz refinacion. Would this mean a similar cutback in gasoline production? Is there enough demand for Diesel Marina? God only knows.

EDIT EDIT EDIT EDIT

But it's come to pass exactly like Ernesto told me 2 years ago and I passed on to this board...
Refinery upgrading for ultra-low-sulfur-diesel was then and is now a myth.

WHO CARES IF 100% OF THE UBA DIESEL IS EXTRANEOUS? IT GETS THE JOB DONE.

Mexico has a big enough job to get almost all the sulfur out of Magna. That monumental task alone will do as much to clean remaining SO2 out of city air as anything else Pemex can do to do help reduce emissions. Mexican Magna has 5 times the sulfur emission as compared to US gasoline. Reduce the sulfur and gasoline quality goes up -- way up.

When I was loading molten Sulfur onto insulated tankers forty years ago it was taken to Stauffer Chemical to be converted to concentrated Sulfuric acid and returned to be to be precipitated through Iso Butane to make Alkylate. One of the really cherry components of good gasoline. And a key component of AV Gas.

Tours of the Salamanca refinacion, a good look at Reynosa and Salina Cruz showed me key process stream plants were missing. Non existent.

For Mexico to upgrade it's existing refineries to take advantage of newer technologies and utilize full pressure hydrogen to feed it's GOSRH, Hydrocrackers, Reformers, Cat feed and Cat gas hydrocrackers, make alkylation plants and upsize cat crackers would be a ten year hundreds of billions of dollars project. The Manhattan Project of Mexico. The publicity versus the reality is and was a political stunt. And I could care less for political intrigue. It does not do a damned thing for engines or emissions.

I am stuck in a Twilight Zone area of the coast where ARCO, BP, Shell, and Chevron have no port facilities. This means 101% Mexican refined fuels except for Premium (Japanese origin) and the Japanese put their foot down feeding Baja California the one state with UBA diesel. No more. Not one drop more, says Japan. A lot of their diesel is 0 PPM fuel -- no sulfur at all.

If you have experience between operating a hissy-fit gasoline engine on extraneous refined gasoline and Mexican refined gasoline you will see a very unpleasant difference. Premium is not a few cents more expensive these days -- it is almost forty cents a gallon more expensive. Using Techron is a savior but it is neither convenient nor inexpensive.

Thankfully few RV diesel rigs operate within the range of Salina Cruz distribution. And those that do -- do so for a limited mileage factor.

So it is a moot point unless an expat moves to the Salina Cruz influence with a newer sensitive diesel. I wish the transition was complete and makes a discussion such as this utterly obsolete. I can expect different fuel economy with my Kubota and litros completos when I go to fill up vehicles and drums.

Conclusion -- where you see foreign gasolineras, you will find UBA in all gasolinera diesel and hopefully litros completos in the foreign stations.

As for sulfur in gasoline (GASP!) here is a link that is basically understandable. The millions upon millions of gallons of high sulfur MAGNA gasoline burned daily in the capitol smog valley is yet another component of winter eye watering pollutant.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0920586103004127

It's light years better than it was just three years ago.

Further footnote information...

http://www.pemex.com/ri/Deuda/Calificacin%20crediticia/Pemex%20Issuer%20In-Depth%20July%202018.pdf

MEXICOWANDERER
Explorer
Explorer
Yes Ed. I proofed the link only to find my computer locked up. So I redid it again and proofed it again. The problem seems to be here in Mexico with overloaded ties to outside the country.

Xavier told me 3 months ago that the Salina Cruz refinacion had grading work done next to the hydrocracker but not one load of steel nor vessels were brought in to make a Delayed Coker, the essential first step in extracting carbon or sulfur.

There were sulfuric acid precipitation vessels installed for manufacturing UBA Premium but zero has been done to reduce the level of sulfur in Magna.

The areas most affected by the no-show desulfurization vessels in Salina Cruz are ports up and down the West Coast. Xavier said "When you see extraneous gasolineras from Mazatlan to Tapachula then UBA diesel becomes a reality. UBA diesel from Salina Cruz is a lie" He told me that AMLO is especially directing efforts to get Salina Cruz straightened out. At the moment the refinacion is producing normal diesel in normal amounts and they are unwilling to cut back production. Therefore the only UBA present is premium gasoline. Pemex has no plans at all for extraneous gasolineras from Lazaro Cardenas, southward to Guatemala. SEMPRA was denied permission to build port facilities at Lazaro Cardenas even though hundreds of acres of open land are available. SEMPRA is the largest distributor of Chevron fuels. We can only hope BP has a chance there.

My experience is the gasolineras from Lazaro southward are some of the crookedest in the country.

My big hope is that AMLO fulfills his promises. Better fuels and litros completos are a god given right, not a luxury.

Ed_White
Explorer
Explorer
Interesting - the article claims that 81% of the diesel fuel was ULSD in July, when the article was written.

Who knows what to believe. ALL of my lab tests from the Mainland and Baja are ULSD, and there hasn't been a single case of sulfur poisoning reported to me since late 2017.

The anecdotal and lab evidence suggests that the CEO's comments are at odds with what is going on in the field and the contracts awarded to upgrade refineries in the last year.

I'm sticking to my position that there's ULSD everywhere because problems have COMPLETELY DISAPPEARED.

MEXICOWANDERER
Explorer
Explorer

Tequila
Explorer
Explorer
It is cerftainly good news regardless, Ed. I sent out our newsletter yesterday with ULSD updates, now I have to send our an adendum. One I am glad to take the trouble to do.