Some dish aiming questions for satellite Xperts...

[myredracer]

Recently got a Birdog meter. Sure helps for peaking a signal. Also just got a 34" dish to get more gain. Installed a new Invacom QPH-031 LNB on it which has 2 linear outputs and 2 circular (one right, one left). I got the big dish for trips farther south because we're using Bell sat service on Nimiq-4 82 and Nimiq-1 91 and the signal footprint drops down significantly around the WA/OR border but some users have reported getting an adequate signal farther south, even as far as Florida. We're currently camping in WA not far from the border.

Just tried setting up the dish at the CG and it's not a very good site for sat reception due to trees. The deciduous trees I'm aiming through have lost there leaves and thought I'd give it a try. Was surprised to find that the meter is telling me I'm getting a 100% signal on both sats. However, using "point dish" on the receiver, it works fine on 91 but when I switch it to 82 it says I'm on the wrong sat (91). Have been able to get 82 from this same CG last year using a small 18" dish.

Have tried re-aiming the dish towards what I *think* should be 82 but the meter is still saying 100% on both sats. We were at another CG last weekend and was able to get 82 just fine. I don't want to have to bother with two LNBs and having to adjust the skew angle. Sat 82 has most of the HD stations but 91 has the program schedule so it would be nice to get both 82 & 91. Have done the check switch process a few times and have tried moving the dish around a bit but doesn't help.

Questions are:
1. Can a dish with only one LNB receive two sat. signals?
2. The receiver has a separator with and have one coax cable out to the dish. Could it possibly be anything to do with this?
3. Why does the meter say I'm getting both 82 & 91 simultaneously with 100% strength? The receiver says the signal is 84% on 82.
4. The satellite downloads from the Birdog site lists both sats with a prefix of "BR" and "BL". Is one circular right and one circular left? Doesn't seem to matter which output (right or left) on the LNB but the meter was only locking in on one of them.
5. I've read that too strong a signal can overwhelm a receiver. Could this be a factor?

TIA!

[myredracer]

So I have the answer. Spoke to a tech at commercial communications equip. shop who knows all about the Birdog meters and has done programming of them.

The Birdog USB Plus meter cannot distinguish the difference in data streams between the Bell 82 & 91 sats and identifies them as both being locked onto at the same time. He says to peak the signal on one of them and see what sat you've got showing on your TV and if that's not the sat you want, re-adjust the dish the appropriate no. of degrees and peak the signal for the other one (if using one LNB).

Not quite how I expected these meters to work.

[joebedford]

I just noticed that you're using a separator - for a two tuner PVR using one cable I assume.

AFAIK you need to have a DPP type LNB for that to work.

[joebedford]

I got rid of Bell because it only works within a few hundred kms of the CAN/US border.

However, back when it worked, if I was trying to lock on 82 from 122 longitude where you are, I knew that the sat. is 30 degrees east of due south. I usually figured due south by looking at my watch and the sun (but you could use a compass and compensate for magnetic vs. actual). Point the dish then slew the elevation until the sat. receiver got a signal. Tweak pointing by selecting a known weak transponder. 2 minutes max - takes longer to level the tripod.

I had a sat. meter but threw it out - I could do it more easily without.

Hitting two sats. is a little more complicated. dishpointer.com is an excellent resource.

Don't even try to get Bell if you go much further south - you're just asking for frustration. It doesn't work.

For some reason, I find Shaw much harder to find the sats. but at least it works.

[myredracer]

Bill.Satellite wrote:
If you are planning to travel much farther South and still receive the Bell programming it really won't matter as the signal simply does not exist. If you stay in OR and WA you should be fine.

It'd be an experiment of sorts to see far I can go. We're mostly in WA or OR anyway tho.

I just got another Birdog meter. It's an older model and got it for cheap just to get the case (seller sold it for parts as they didn't test it). Works perfectly. It does exactly the same thing though. If I'm aimed at either 82 or 91, it says it's locked on both. Have tried both the Invacom LNB and our other dish that has a standard LNB and same thing.

So it's something to do with the meter. Have contacted the manufacturer and will see what they say. May also talk to a local satellite system installer.

[Bill_Satellite]

If you are planning to travel much farther South and still receive the Bell programming it really won't matter as the signal simply does not exist. If you stay in OR and WA you should be fine.

[gutfelt]

myredracer wrote:

gutfelt wrote:

IF you would read posts of suggestions others have posted you would clearly see that you a NEED DUAL LNB if u want to get two satellites at the same time!!!! one LNB is only good if you have a automatic dish that changes sats when your receiver gives it a signal to do so.

Where did I say I am trying to do is get two satellites with one LNB? I am aware you need two LNBs for that. Perhaps you need to go back and read what I've posted. I only want to get 82, or perhaps I didn't make that clear enough. The problem I am having and trying to understand is why the the Birdog meter is telling me I'm locked onto both 82 & 91 no matter which one I'm pointed at and with only one LNB. I now know that I couldn't get 82 at the last CG due to trees but the meter was telling me I was locked onto both. I appear to have either a problem with the meter or the type of LNB I am using.

I'll watch 91 if that's all that I can get, but nothing much worth watching on it for us and the only benefit would be that it has the program schedule beyond one hour out while 82 only shows one hour out

all I read was you said (asked)

Questions are:
1. Can a dish with only one LNB receive two sat. signals?

and I said no you need two LNB unless the dish switches automatically
between satellites or as u know move it manually

[myredracer]

Update: I just found this report on the Invacom LNB I have and it says it is specifically designed to receive two satellites without having to use a second LNB. So maybe the Birdog is okay. But I think I need a switch like below and connect it to each of the circular outputs on the LNB? This switch says it is for Bell 82 & 91.

[myredracer]

gutfelt wrote:

IF you would read posts of suggestions others have posted you would clearly see that you a NEED DUAL LNB if u want to get two satellites at the same time!!!! one LNB is only good if you have a automatic dish that changes sats when your receiver gives it a signal to do so.

Where did I say I am trying to do is get two satellites with one LNB? I am aware you need two LNBs for that. Perhaps you need to go back and read what I've posted. I only want to get 82, or perhaps I didn't make that clear enough. The problem I am having and trying to understand is why the the Birdog meter is telling me I'm locked onto both 82 & 91 no matter which one I'm pointed at and with only one LNB. I now know that I couldn't get 82 at the last CG due to trees but the meter was telling me I was locked onto both. I appear to have either a problem with the meter or the type of LNB I am using.

I'll watch 91 if that's all that I can get, but nothing much worth watching on it for us and the only benefit would be that it has the program schedule beyond one hour out while 82 only shows one hour out

[gutfelt]

myredracer wrote:
Thanks for the comments. Am new to this satellite stuff and have lots to learn. Need some kind of Satellite for Dummies book. Today I am in Chehalis WA, 200 mi. from the CAN/US border and have a sunny day and no trees in the way.

Using the basic Winegard signal finder, I can get 82 and 91 no problem on the 34" dish. Same when I set up our 24" dish. Receiver is showin a signal strenght of around 80.

The Birdog is working just fine for peaking a signal. With the 34" dish, it's giving me a 100% signal and with the smaller 24" dish, 78-80%. So the larger dish has higher gain as expected. But the Birdog is still locking on both 82 & 91 if aimed at either one.

I found this post on a Canadian forum where a poster said (back in 2014) about his Birdog: "Also Nimiq4 locks on Nimiq1 and vice verse." Then there was some discussion about needing a DPP LNB. Afraid I don't know what DPP is. Maybe I need a different LNB??

IF you would read posts of suggestions others have posted you would clearly see that you a NEED DUAL LNB if u want to get two satellites at the same time!!!! one LNB is only good if you have a automatic dish that changes sats when your receiver gives it a signal to do so.

[myredracer]

Thanks for the comments. Am new to this satellite stuff and have lots to learn. Need some kind of Satellite for Dummies book. Today I am in Chehalis WA, 200 mi. from the CAN/US border and have a sunny day and no trees in the way.

Using the basic Winegard signal finder, I can get 82 and 91 no problem on the 34" dish. Same when I set up our 24" dish. Receiver is showin a signal strenght of around 80.

The Birdog is working just fine for peaking a signal. With the 34" dish, it's giving me a 100% signal and with the smaller 24" dish, 78-80%. So the larger dish has higher gain as expected. But the Birdog is still locking on both 82 & 91 if aimed at either one.

I found this post on a Canadian forum where a poster said (back in 2014) about his Birdog: "Also Nimiq4 locks on Nimiq1 and vice verse." Then there was some discussion about needing a DPP LNB. Afraid I don't know what DPP is. Maybe I need a different LNB??

[gutfelt]

Bill.Satellite wrote:
Shaw in Mexico....Yes.
Never heard of anyone getting Bell in Mexico since the re-pointed the beam many years ago.

yes I have not really followed bell in last couple years and now I see they stopped bell in 2012 so true no longer only shaw is available

[Bill_Satellite]

Questions are:
1. Can a dish with only one LNB receive two sat. signals?
NO.
2. The receiver has a separator with and have one coax cable out to the dish. Could it possibly be anything to do with this?
NO.
3. Why does the meter say I'm getting both 82 & 91 simultaneously with 100% strength? The receiver says the signal is 84% on 82.
IT'S WRONG IF YOU HAVE ONLY 1 LNB.
4. The satellite downloads from the Birdog site lists both sats with a prefix of "BR" and "BL". Is one circular right and one circular left? Doesn't seem to matter which output (right or left) on the LNB but the meter was only locking in on one of them.
NO IDEA WHAT THIS LNB IS.
5. I've read that too strong a signal can overwhelm a receiver. Could this be a factor?
NO.

[Bill_Satellite]

Shaw in Mexico....Yes.
Never heard of anyone getting Bell in Mexico since the re-pointed the beam many years ago.

[gutfelt]

Questions are:
1. Can a dish with only one LNB receive two sat. signals?
2. The receiver has a separator with and have one coax cable out to the dish. Could it possibly be anything to do with this?
3. Why does the meter say I'm getting both 82 & 91 simultaneously with 100% strength?

iam far from a sat expert but bell can and does get picked up even in mexico
If u only have a single LNB you cant receive two satellites !!
you need a dual LNB to get both sats on a manual dish at same time
the meter may show 82% on your meter but as said your only going to receive one sat no matter; the only way u get 2 sats is if the dish moves automatically and I don't believe that,s what your describing here at all