Gas Fuel pumps (Ford)

[path1]

Prior to a fuel pump failing are there any indications you noticed? Maybe lack of power or slight mis-fire or other issue that told you fuel pump was going out? Wondering about the in-tank fuel pumps like what is on Triton motors.

Thanks


I'm thinking about installing a low pressure alarm. Do the in-tank elec pumps just quit with no indications before they stop pumping gas.

[BruceMc]

2000 Four Winds on 1999 E350 chassis w/ V10, purchased used in 2010.

We first noticed an issue just after we bought it. We stopped to get. bite to eat on the way home. Upon attempting to restart, all it would do was crank. Once I shut the key off, then back on, would it start.
Odd.

One time on a little backroad, it simply died. It restarted ok.
Odd.

Off and on afterwards, it would pull the same stunt - a start or restart would crank, but not start. Off/on cycle always worked.
Odd.

One cold January day, I attempted to conduct my storage monthlies. At or around the first of the month, I would start the engine, and occasionally drive it for a few miles. The monthly of Jan '13, it would not start, no matter what I did.
Really odd.

After evaluating the issue, we found the fuel pump had failed. I purchased a new one, then set about emptying the fuel tank. I always keep it full over winter in case we need to use the unit in an emergency... Yes, 55 gallons worth.

Original story here:Failure & replacement of fuel pump on E-350
and the subsequent fuel pump teardown: E-series fuel pump teardown (with pics!)

We were very grateful it did not strand us on the road. It very well could have.

After the replacement, it never failed to start. A friend now owns that unit; he stores it in our barn, and as such, I still do my basic monthlies on it (check batteries, start engine/generator) but he buys the fuel & takes care of his repairs as he sees fit.

[Gjac]

Mine just failed this summer out in Washington state. Looking back there were signs that the pump was failing. At first it took two crank cycles to get it started, a 1000 miles later I had to give it gas to like a carb engine to start it. Once it started it ran well even climbing hills out west. A 1000 miles later I really had to pump the gas to keep it running. I checked the fuel pressure and it was fine so I thought the problem was electrical, after changing plugs, wires, HEI, pickup coil, fuel filter etc I drove it a 100 miles to a shop in Washington, at first an older mechanic thought it was the timing gear that was warn throwing the timing off because the fuel pressure was good and it ran well at high speeds. A young tech sprayed carb cleaner into TBI and it started and ran fine and he determine it was a failing fuel pump. So the conclusion is just because it has the correct pressure does not mean it is pumping the correct volume of fuel to start the engine. If you wanted to add something as a warning gage I would add a flow meter rather than a pressure gage.

[ron_dittmer]

As I mentioned in another thread...

Tip #1 Improving Fuel Pump Reliability
On most vehicles, you can extend the life of your fuel pump by never letting your fuel tank go below 1/4 full. The gasoline in the tank acts as a coolant for the pump. When the pump is no longer submerged in fuel, it runs hotter, therefore reducing it's life expectancy.

Tip #2 Road-Side Self-Help
If your engine cranks over but does not start, you listen for your fuel pump and conclude it's not working.
a) Check the fuse to the fuel pump.
b) On Fords Only - Reset the "crash" sensor located behind the passenger side kick panel. It has a reset button on top of it. You can feel the reset button by reaching over the top of the kick panel. No disassembly required.
c) Slap the bottom of the fuel tank with a 2x4 a number of times. It is ideal for one person to crank while the other person is slapping. The jolt sometimes gets the pump working again. Rest one end of the 2x4 near the bottom edge of the fuel tank and slap hard as if the 2x4 was hinged to the bottom of the tank. You won't dent the tank yet you get great jolting action.

[fireflock]

Mine took a little longer to start, one or two cranks, instead of firing right up. It built gradually over time. Finally, it wouldn't start at all (crank, no start). Some bumping and jostling finally got it running again and I soon replaced it.

I didn't really notice how much longer it was taking to start until I put the new pump in. The difference was then obvious.

[SEMO_Mike]

We were in Alaska and rig was getting harder and harder to start. When it finally started it was lurching and cutting out. I found a tech and he installed a new fuel filter. He had me give him a bowl and he poured the contents of the filter into the bowl and you could see little black flecks. I thought it was dirt in the fuel. When we got to Montana she quit. Had a new fuel pump installed. When I got home my mechanic told me the tech should have known when he saw the black flecks in the gas that the pump was disintegrating and should have replaced it then.

[mgirardo]

I know two folks with E450 based Motorhomes that had the fuel pump go bad. In both cases the pump failed at startup. For both it happened while the Motorhome was parked in the driveway. They had no signs previously that it was failing.

The one time I had a fuel pump fail was while towing our Hybrid TT with our Astro Minivan. We were going up a tall bridge. As we neared the top, stepping on the gas pedal did nothing. I tried again and the engine revved and all seemed fine. At the bottom of the bridge, there was a T intersection with 2 lanes turning left. We were in the right lane of the 2 left turning lanes. Just after we made the turn onto a 2 lane highway with a slight grade the fuel pump failed. I had enough momentum to get into a right turn lane into a parking lot before forward motion stopped. I didn't make it into the parking lot unfortunately.

-Michael

[navegator]

One sign that the pump is going out, loss of power going up hill and you need to crank it to start longer than usual until it has enough pressure in the delivery rail, we crawled up the steep incline in to Santa Fe from Chama at maybe 8 miles per hour on the side of the road, pump was replaced at the Ford dealer in Santa Fe.

navegator

[time2roll]

Mine was hard to start when chilly in November Santa Cruz. Then fine after getting back home. Quit up in Mammoth in the snow.

[path1]

Hank85713 wrote:
is it gas or diesel? Fuel pumps work or just give out, so need to know what it is and year. Just had to install fuel pump in our 12 E450, but suspect the pump was good and the frame mounted relay was bad. Had issues like failure to start, start no power, hung starter. Fuel pump for the V10 was $500 with another $1000 to install. Relays can be found for $70 to 250 depending on where you get it from.

your 1st post says gas, 2 post refers to a cummins so not sure of what you are dealing with. So when asking need to post year model and engine for best results. Older cummins pu's did have fuel pump issues as they didnt have a lift pump only the tank pump.

Currently trying to "bullet proof" 2003 Ford F350 5.4 gas. Have parts left over from re-doing an older Cummins, thought I would put pressure switch back to work in the Ford. I thought it would be easy but seems more to it than bunch of labor.

Thanks

[path1]

Thanks JD..
This might prove harder than the brakes that you helped me on this thing years ago.

[j-d]

If it's a Ford gasser with fuel injection, that in-tank pump will not flow fuel if it's not running. In other words, you can't pull gas through a failed pump with an external pump. I think you "could" gut an in-tank pump and use it as a pickup for an external one. The problem then would be sourcing an external pump that provided the pressure and volume the EFI requires...AND would suck the fuel out of the tank. The in-tank ones work submerged. They have little to no lift capability.

[path1]

pnichols wrote:
Discussions like the above really are scarry!! It's not "when" ... but "where" the fuel pump goes out that's my concern. What if it gives up way out someplace in a boondocking spot?

I'd pay extra for a special dual fuel pump setup in which two fuel pumps were running in parallel at all times, with a warning light when either one of them failed. Since the chances of both failing at the same time are vanishingly small/near zero, two pumps in parallel would stop any concerns of ever being stranded for that reason. Fuel pump failure is one of the few things that can stop you dead in your tracks and that can't be fixed on the road by the owner or ERS. There's no "limping home" with a failed fuel pump. (Although some owners think that they can replace a fuel pump "fairly easily" if there is an access port in the floor of their RV.)

Perhaps Ford motorhome fuel pumps should be replaced before they fail every ??? miles .... the same as certain other super critical Can-Leave-You-Stranded preventative maintenance items?

Op here...that is why I have some odd parts left over. Our Fuel pump (lift pump actually) fell apart in Yuma. Not even boon docking at the time. Dealer 2 weeks behind (snow bird season) so we went to another shop. We got totally ripped off by mechanic that talked a good story in the beginning but never followed through. We're not going threw that again. Coming back home started leaking around Sacramento area, we did made it home to Seattle, yes with diapers and baling wire wrapped around fuel leak at sump. I now have an back up pump that I can make it to a repair shop of my choice. Just un-bolt (external) failed pump and screw in back up (carter pump) and switch around elec wires, re-prime fuel line and good to go.

Trying to set a similar set up for a gasser, so like you say not stuck. Just flip of toggle switch or what ever so you're not stuck somewhere.

I think the first generation of Humvees had a set up that had to 2 pumps. If one failed other pump kicked in. I'm going to have to do some more work on something that might work.

If I ever do drop gas tank, I'm for sure going to install a bulk head fitting and plug it off for future use, if at all possible.

[Hank85713]

is it gas or diesel? Fuel pumps work or just give out, so need to know what it is and year. Just had to install fuel pump in our 12 E450, but suspect the pump was good and the frame mounted relay was bad. Had issues like failure to start, start no power, hung starter. Fuel pump for the V10 was $500 with another $1000 to install. Relays can be found for $70 to 250 depending on where you get it from.

your 1st post says gas, 2 post refers to a cummins so not sure of what you are dealing with. So when asking need to post year model and engine for best results. Older cummins pu's did have fuel pump issues as they didnt have a lift pump only the tank pump.

[pnichols]

Discussions like the above really are scarry!! It's not "when" ... but "where" the fuel pump goes out that's my concern. What if it gives up way out someplace in a boondocking spot?

I'd pay extra for a special dual fuel pump setup in which two fuel pumps were running in parallel at all times, with a warning light when either one of them failed. Since the chances of both failing at the same time are vanishingly small/near zero, two pumps in parallel would stop any concerns of ever being stranded for that reason. Fuel pump failure is one of the few things that can stop you dead in your tracks and that can't be fixed on the road by the owner or ERS. There's no "limping home" with a failed fuel pump. (Although some owners think that they can replace a fuel pump "fairly easily" if there is an access port in the floor of their RV.)

Perhaps Ford motorhome fuel pumps should be replaced before they fail every ??? miles .... the same as certain other super critical Can-Leave-You-Stranded preventative maintenance items?