Good Sam Club Open Roads Forum: Towing: Help needed with CAT scale numbers
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 > Help needed with CAT scale numbers

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mkirsch

Rochester, NY

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Posted: 11/22/17 08:44am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

In a nutshell, what you want is for your front axle weight to be as close is it can be to the 3740# "truck-only" weight, with the trailer hitched AND the WD bars engaged.

Currently you are around 400# below what the front should weigh with the WD bars engaged.


Putting 10-ply tires on half ton trucks since 2017.

Baja Man

Inland Empire, CA

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Posted: 11/22/17 12:02pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

NOTE: Cal;led Equalizer hitch to inquire about the 1400/14000 hitch system. They said that the 1200# and 1400# trunnion bars are the same; only the head units are different.


2003 Ford F-350 XLT Super Duty, Crew Cab, V10 (6.8L); 4X2; Standard Bed; SRW; 4R100 trans
2016 Outdoors RV - Timber Ridge 280RKS, Equal-i-zer Hitch 4pt. 14K
2014 Gregor Eagle 17 Center Console (Mercury 60hp 4 stroke)

jim1521

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Posted: 11/22/17 02:01pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

jim1521 wrote:

Your WDS is not doing anything.

The steer axle on the empty truck was 3,740 lbs. When you connected the trailer up, you lost nearly 400 lbs off of the front, and gained over 1,500 lbs on the rear axle. The WDS should balance that out. You are WAY too tongue heavy.

You need to measure the height of the wheel wells on both axles while the truck is empty, then measure them again with the WDS properly installed. They should not change - the WDS is supposed to offload some of that 1,500 lbs up to the steer axle, so that the two (steer axle and drive axle) are closer together. With all that weight on the back, it is causing the butt of the truck to drop down, and the nose of the truck to rise up - decreasing your steering ability.

I'd take it to someone who knows how to install/adjust that WDS. You're way off right now.


OK, I had some time today and ran your numbers through a spreadsheet I use to calculate load:

16,160 Gross Weight (Max 19450. from scales receipt)
6,900 Truck baseline weight (7580 unloaded/8000 loaded)
3,360 Steer Axle Weight (Max 4900. from scales receipt)
4,680 Drive Axle Weight (Max 4900.from scales receipt)
8,120 Trailer axle weight (Max 10200. from scales receipt)
1,140 Tongue Weight (Max 1260. Calculated. Do not change)
8,040 Truck actual weight (Max 8800. Calculated. Do not change)
9,260 Trailer Gross Weight (Max 10995.Calculated. Do not change)
12% % Tongue Weight (Calculated. Do not change)

(NOTE: Disregard numbers in parentheses; they are for my vehicle only).

Your TW is good, but you've got a 1,220 lb differential between your steer axle and drive axle. That needs to be adjusted to get those numbers much closer together.

Baja Man

Inland Empire, CA

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Posted: 11/23/17 06:59am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

jim1521 wrote:

jim1521 wrote:

Your WDS is not doing anything.

The steer axle on the empty truck was 3,740 lbs. When you connected the trailer up, you lost nearly 400 lbs off of the front, and gained over 1,500 lbs on the rear axle. The WDS should balance that out. You are WAY too tongue heavy.

You need to measure the height of the wheel wells on both axles while the truck is empty, then measure them again with the WDS properly installed. They should not change - the WDS is supposed to offload some of that 1,500 lbs up to the steer axle, so that the two (steer axle and drive axle) are closer together. With all that weight on the back, it is causing the butt of the truck to drop down, and the nose of the truck to rise up - decreasing your steering ability.

I'd take it to someone who knows how to install/adjust that WDS. You're way off right now.


OK, I had some time today and ran your numbers through a spreadsheet I use to calculate load:

16,160 Gross Weight (Max 19450. from scales receipt)
6,900 Truck baseline weight (7580 unloaded/8000 loaded)
3,360 Steer Axle Weight (Max 4900. from scales receipt)
4,680 Drive Axle Weight (Max 4900.from scales receipt)
8,120 Trailer axle weight (Max 10200. from scales receipt)
1,140 Tongue Weight (Max 1260. Calculated. Do not change)
8,040 Truck actual weight (Max 8800. Calculated. Do not change)
9,260 Trailer Gross Weight (Max 10995.Calculated. Do not change)
12% % Tongue Weight (Calculated. Do not change)

(NOTE: Disregard numbers in parentheses; they are for my vehicle only).

Your TW is good, but you've got a 1,220 lb differential between your steer axle and drive axle. That needs to be adjusted to get those numbers much closer together.


JIm, thanks for taking the time to run these numbers through your spreadsheet, much appreciated.

So, is my 1200/12000 Equalizer hitch adequate and safe to use or should I upgrade to the 1400/14000 unit?

I will need a taller shank than the one I have currently as I am unable to get the truck ball level or slightly above the trailer coupler when it is level. The new shank works with both the 1200 and 1400 units.

I can even consider another brand hitch if I were to upgrade. However, I used an Equlaizer hitch years ago and it proved to be very reliable and removed sway as intended.

Thoughts?

Baja Man

Inland Empire, CA

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Posted: 11/23/17 07:00am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

BTW.....

Happy Thanksgiving to all!!

jim1521

Florida

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Posted: 11/23/17 01:22pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Baja, the 1200 should do it if you stay the same (<1200 lbs TW), but if it were me, I'd go to the 1400.

Also, you MUST get the proper height shank. If you don't, it'll screw up your tires as they won't be carrying an even load.

Baja Man

Inland Empire, CA

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Posted: 11/23/17 03:13pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Questions:

If I load additonal weight to truck bed, which I plan on doing in the next few weeks (camper shell, tools, camping supplies, possible a cargo slide, etc) approx. 600#.....

1. will this increase my tongue weight?
2. If so I would need to increase both the hitch to a 1400/14000 and receiver to at least 1400 tW.

Thoughts?

jim1521

Florida

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Posted: 11/23/17 03:59pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Baja Man wrote:

Questions:

If I load additonal weight to truck bed, which I plan on doing in the next few weeks (camper shell, tools, camping supplies, possible a cargo slide, etc) approx. 600#.....

1. will this increase my tongue weight?
2. If so I would need to increase both the hitch to a 1400/14000 and receiver to at least 1400 tW.

Thoughts?


Short answer is no.

Your hitch has a given rating. Assuming you have a Class IV hitch on your truck, you are limited to about 1,200 lbs attached to the hitch. If you want to go above that, you need a Class V hitch installed on your truck. For example, if you load 2,000 lbs on to a Class IV hitch, the excess weight could cause the Class IV hitch to fail.

Classes of trailer hitches

When you add weight to the back of the truck, you are adding it to the overall truck weight - and more specifically to the rear axle - slightly different from tongue weight.

Given that you will be adding even more weight to the rear axle, it becomes even more important that the WDS does its job of transferring weight to the front axle.

* This post was edited 11/23/17 04:09pm by jim1521 *

Grit dog

Black Diamond, WA

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Posted: 11/24/17 09:15am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

eHoefler wrote:

The size of the bars are how much weight they can transfer, not the capacity of the tongue weight. You are well within your limits, you need to put more tension on the bars to transfer more weight, or adjust the head for more tilt. You are very close nad only need an adjustment to be dead on.


^This. Crank the WD bars up another link or 2 and call it good. It's not horrible now save for a bit more tongue weight than the receiver is "rated" for.
You have a perfect base line now. Can do the rest by measuring fender gaps on the front of the truck. Correlate your loaded and unloaded fender well height to the weights from your scale report.


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Grit dog

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Posted: 11/24/17 09:17am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

jim1521 wrote:

Baja, the 1200 should do it if you stay the same (<1200 lbs TW), but if it were me, I'd go to the 1400.

Also, you MUST get the proper height shank. If you don't, it'll screw up your tires as they won't be carrying an even load.


Only if the trailer has torsion axles. With torsion spring axles, trailers need to be close to level. With tandem leaf springs, they modulate the weight between the 2 axles, until you get to extreme angles where the center link between the front and rear springs bottoms out.

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