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How much does the F150 EB benefit from premium?

ShinerBock
Explorer
Explorer
The whole "F150 EB needs premium fuel when towing" has been a highly debated topic. Many people take what is written in the owners manual to mean different things. Some seem to think it needs it or it will knock heavily. Others, such as myself, believe that it does not need it for knock, but you will see horsepower and torque improvement especially when under load.

Well, our friends over at AAA have finally put that to bed with a very extensive study(and boy do I mean extensive) on multiple vehicles that use regular fuel, but recommend premium when more performance is wanted. One of the vehicles in the test is a 2017 F150 3.5L Ecoboost.

Before reading the AAA report below, watch this video with Jason Fenske from Engineering Explained summarizing the findings of the AAA study.

Engineering Explained
VIDEO: New Study Shows Premium Gas Isn't Always Worth It

AAA
ARTICLE: Donโ€™t Be Fueled: Premium Not Always Worth the Price

REPORT: AAA Premium Fuel Research, Phase II

Enjoy!
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31 REPLIES 31

ShinerBock
Explorer
Explorer
Lynnmor wrote:


It is a tiny twin turbo-charged engine that develops high cylinder pressures to make the horsepower of a larger engine. When worked hard it begins to knock on low octane fuel, so the computer makes adjustments in an attempt to save the engine from severe damage. What the report didn't do, and nobody reported, is investigate what amount of damage is caused by the knocking that did happen.



I am not sure you know this, but every engine that has the ability to adjust timing usually does so on a constant basis as you are driving down the road. The engine is always pulling and advancing timing depending on engine load and air/fuel ratio as well as when it detects knock.

If you ever hook up a laptop to data log information from your knock sensors, you will notice that it is very common for an engine to knock. The reason why you don't notice it is because the computer pulls timing before it becomes a problem. If you do notice it then you have a problem, but if the amount of timing being pulled is well withing the engines range, then it is not a problem or damaging to your engine.

There are also other things that engines like the Ecoboost can do to prevent knock that many other engines can't. One major one is direct injection. With port injection, you can only inject fuel into the cylinder when the intake valve is open which is usually on the intake stroke. That means that fuel is in the cylinder the whole time during the compression stroke allowing for a greater chance of pre-detonation. With direct injection you can inject fuel at any time which is usually during the compression stroke right before the spark plug is about to ignite the fuel. This lowers the chance of the pre-detonation versus a port injected engine. Direct injected engine also inject a mist of fuel on the exhaust stroke to cool the cylinder if needed.

The other thing is the wide range of the cam phasers to pull or advance valve timing as well as control overlap which directly effects knock. ( The Impact of Intake Valve Dynamics on Knock Propensity in a Dual-Fuel SI Engine ) However, not all engines are the same in their ability to control cam or valve timing. Some can only control the exhaust valve, some can only advance valve timing without the ability to pull it, and some engines can only slightly rotate the cam 10ยฐ to 20ยฐ. The cam phasers on many Ford gas engines, like the Ecoboost engines, can rotate both the intake and exhaust both ways with up to 60ยฐ of rotation. This greatly increases its ability to control knock versus many other engines.

New technology generally solves old problems so you really can't apply what happens to other engines with different technology as apples to apples. That is like comparing a 1980's Ford 5.0L to a modern direct injected Ford 5.0L engine and expecting the same output.
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2016 BMW 2.0L diesel (work and back car)
2023 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon 3.0L Ecodiesel

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Bionic_Man
Explorer
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Lynnmor wrote:
Bionic Man wrote:
So, if a vehicle doesn't need premium, why would the manufacture recommend it?


It is a tiny twin turbo-charged engine that develops high cylinder pressures to make the horsepower of a larger engine. When worked hard it begins to knock on low octane fuel, so the computer makes adjustments in an attempt to save the engine from severe damage. What the report didn't do, and nobody reported, is investigate what amount of damage is caused by the knocking that did happen.


The knocking part of this makes sense to me. I think it is naive to believe that vehicle manufactures would recommend something that would increase operating costs for little or no reason at all.

I have 4 vehicles that suggest/require premium.

An LS3 in my boat. I ran low octane in it once, and the engine knocked bad enough to throw a "service engine immediately" error message. It actually shook the whole boat.

Dealer diagnosed the problem as fuel related, topped the tank off with premium and added some octane booster, and it went away.

A Lexus RX400h. Ran regular octane and mpg dropped from 26/27 all the way down to 22.

I've never tried regular in either my Yukon Denali or my Cayman.

I would rather go by what the manufacture recommends. But if someone wants torso running lower grade, that is up to them.
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Lynnmor
Explorer
Explorer
Bionic Man wrote:
So, if a vehicle doesn't need premium, why would the manufacture recommend it?


It is a tiny twin turbo-charged engine that develops high cylinder pressures to make the horsepower of a larger engine. When worked hard it begins to knock on low octane fuel, so the computer makes adjustments in an attempt to save the engine from severe damage. What the report didn't do, and nobody reported, is investigate what amount of damage is caused by the knocking that did happen.

ShinerBock
Explorer
Explorer
Bionic Man wrote:
So, if a vehicle doesn't need premium, why would the manufacture recommend it?


They recommend it IF you want to take advantage of the added performance that premium will bring by allowing the engine to advance the ignition timing.

This is only for engines that can adjust ignition timing and even more so for engines that are also direct injected and can alter the valve timing and overlap. Fixed timing engines do not get any benefit from premium if they are designed to run on regular.
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2023 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon 3.0L Ecodiesel

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Bionic_Man
Explorer
Explorer
So, if a vehicle doesn't need premium, why would the manufacture recommend it?
2012 RAM 3500 Laramie Longhorn DRW CC 4x4 Max Tow, Cummins HO, 60 gallon RDS aux fuel tank, Reese 18k Elite hitch
2003 Dodge Ram 3500 QC SB 4x4 Cummins HO NV5600 with Smarty JR, Jacobs EB (sold)
2002 Gulf Stream Sea Hawk 29FRB with Honda EV6010

NWnative
Explorer
Explorer
ShinerBock wrote:
NWnative wrote:
ShinerBock wrote:
NWnative wrote:
Since manual recommends it for towing, I run it all the time. No idea how it compares to lower grades of fuel.


I am going to take a wild guess and say you didn't watch the video or look at the report and how they compare the different fuel types before posting this.


Nope and I don't care...I was not expressing an opinion. Just stating the I run premium full time and have since i bought the truck. I average 500 miles a month and use it primarily as a tow vehicle. The manual 'recommends it' but does not 'require it' so I follow the recommendations. You fill your tank with what you like and i will fill my tank with what i want.....Cheers.


I was saying that because it tells you how premium compares to regular in detail in the report and video. It even goes into to detail of when the F150 EB will get the benefit and when it will not.

Cool...I didn't mean to come across as defensive. I did finally read the article and yes, interesting information. Whether it be oil change intervals, what gas to use, oil..syn vs dino, etc, what a lot of these conversation come down to is, do people trust what the manual says / recommends? I used to be in the camp of doing more that what the manual says. i gave up on that about 15 years ago and follow the owners manual to a 'T' now and have had zero issues across several vehicles. The only thing I still do is run full synthetic in all of my vehicles whether it is recommended or not. Anyway......the savings or lack of savings really is minimal for my particular needs so......i just do what the manual tells me and don't worry to much about it. I run premium full time so I don't have to switch back and forth when towing / not towing. I spent $50k ish on a vehicle so, I am not going to worry to much about paying a few extra dollars per tank of gas to run premium. My other vehicles call for 87 octane so....that is what they get.
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NWnative
Explorer
Explorer
ShinerBock wrote:
Turtle n Peeps wrote:

If I owned an EB and towed in Co at 5,000+ feet I would not worry about premium. On the other hand if I was towing up Davis Dam in 100 degree weather you can be sure I would want to put the best fuel I can get in the tank.



Does driving up and down the rollor coaster roads of the Texas hill country towing 9,500 lbs in the 100F+ Texas heat count? If so, did that with 87 octane a few times in my old EB. Once stock and once tuned. The stock tune had a few more knock events than tuned, but that was mainly because the stock tune was trying to keep emissions in check.
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3oaks
Explorer
Explorer
NWnative wrote:
ShinerBock wrote:
NWnative wrote:
Since manual recommends it for towing, I run it all the time. No idea how it compares to lower grades of fuel.


I am going to take a wild guess and say you didn't watch the video or look at the report and how they compare the different fuel types before posting this.


Nope and I don't care...I was not expressing an opinion. Just stating the I run premium full time and have since i bought the truck. I average 500 miles a month and use it primarily as a tow vehicle. The manual 'recommends it' but does not 'require it' so I follow the recommendations. You fill your tank with what you like and i will fill my tank with what i want.....Cheers.
Even though my 2016 F150 3.5 EB has seen nothing but 87 octane regular gas in Summer and Winter, towing or not, I agree with your statement.

In the real world, that's all that counts. ๐Ÿ˜‰
To each their own..........

OH48Lt
Explorer
Explorer
Having had my F150 EB for 7 years now, and running various types of fuel, I can give a first hand experience of regular vs premium in that engine.

First of all, I see no difference at all between 87 and 91 octane. I think its the same gas, at least around here.

The winter blend of 87 and 93 octane fuel makes practically no difference in performance and fuel mileage. Fuel mileage is about a half-MPG better with the 93 premium. Certainly not enough to justify the extra cost.

Summer blend fuel is a different story. There is a very noticeable difference in performance in 87 vs 93 octane in my truck. 93 octane gives me 2 to 2.5 MPG better than 87 octane. If the difference in cost is 30 cents per gallon or less, I'll run the 93 octane if my tank is near empty. No sense blending the two together, you pay more and get no return for it.

That's just for the 3.5 EB engine. Most gasoline engines will not see any difference in performance and MPG in 87 vs 93 octane because they don't have the technology to take advantage of it (direct injection, variable cam timing, etc).
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ShinerBock
Explorer
Explorer
Turtle n Peeps wrote:

If I owned an EB and towed in Co at 5,000+ feet I would not worry about premium. On the other hand if I was towing up Davis Dam in 100 degree weather you can be sure I would want to put the best fuel I can get in the tank.



Does driving up and down the rollor coaster roads of the Texas hill country towing 9,500 lbs in the 100F+ Texas heat count? If so, did that with 87 octane a few times in my old EB. Once stock and once tuned. The stock tune had a few more knock events than tuned, but that was mainly because the stock tune was trying to keep emissions in check.
2014 Ram 2500 6.7L CTD
2016 BMW 2.0L diesel (work and back car)
2023 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon 3.0L Ecodiesel

Highland Ridge Silverstar 378RBS

ShinerBock
Explorer
Explorer
NWnative wrote:
ShinerBock wrote:
NWnative wrote:
Since manual recommends it for towing, I run it all the time. No idea how it compares to lower grades of fuel.


I am going to take a wild guess and say you didn't watch the video or look at the report and how they compare the different fuel types before posting this.


Nope and I don't care...I was not expressing an opinion. Just stating the I run premium full time and have since i bought the truck. I average 500 miles a month and use it primarily as a tow vehicle. The manual 'recommends it' but does not 'require it' so I follow the recommendations. You fill your tank with what you like and i will fill my tank with what i want.....Cheers.


I was saying that because it tells you how premium compares to regular in detail in the report and video. It even goes into to detail of when the F150 EB will get the benefit and when it will not.
2014 Ram 2500 6.7L CTD
2016 BMW 2.0L diesel (work and back car)
2023 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon 3.0L Ecodiesel

Highland Ridge Silverstar 378RBS

Turtle_n_Peeps
Explorer
Explorer
Like most things the devil is in the details.

I could run my turbo street rod in the dead of winter and had no problems with detonation.

If I tried that around sea level and when it's 100 degrees I would have pounded the ring lands out of the pistons.

Same way with the EB. Sure, it has all sorts of electronics to deal with detonation but it will pull timing and will heat the charge up. And when that happens you will have to deal with sky high coolant temps.

If I owned an EB and towed in Co at 5,000+ feet I would not worry about premium. On the other hand if I was towing up Davis Dam in 100 degree weather you can be sure I would want to put the best fuel I can get in the tank.
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brulaz
Explorer
Explorer
Have read some oil company blurbs suggesting their premium has more "secret sauce", cleaning agents, or whatever, than their regular. Shell makes this claim IIRC.

No idea whether this is important to engine longevity, but, if true, it may be more relevant than the improved mileage and HP claims.

But I see no realistic way of evaluating such claims. It's sort of like diesel fuel additive claims ... pretty much all speculation.
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JAC1982
Explorer
Explorer
I haven't watched the video yet as I don't have sound on the computer I'm on.
But, I don't tow much with my EB, but I run Premium in it because that's what the manufacturer recommends. I put a lot of miles on my vehicle and plan on keeping it for quite some time. Since the EB is fairly new technology, why risk shortening it's life by saving a few bucks at the pump?
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