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My Plans Have Been Wrecked

DallasSteve
Nomad
Nomad
My plan to retire in September, 2018 and live in an RV full-time is being re-evaluated. My plan was that when my auto lease was up in August, 2018 I could lease a big new tow vehicle (maybe an F-350) and buy a 2-3 year old travel trailer. About 2 weeks ago I was driving in the rain and a fellow ran a red light and totaled my car. Fortunately I was not injured except for a few bruises.

But now I have no car lease I can ride until retirement. I might be able to takeover a bank repo lease, or I could use Uber for 7 or 8 months, or maybe buy a used car and then sell it and probably lose a little money on that transaction. Then I got to thinking what would be my cost if I bought a used Jeep Wrangler and in September I get a 5 year old gasser Class A or Class C to pull it. I don't really want to drive an F-350 as my "getting around" car, but that was my reluctant plan. A Wrangler would be easier to drive in city and maybe I could play with it off-road when I'm in the country.

The cost of the two plans are about the same. My vehicles would be a little older, but I don't have to run around town in a heavy duty truck. I would like opinions in a few areas to help me make my decision.

1 - Would a 5-year old motorhomes still be in pretty good condition or will I be in the repair shop a lot? Likewise for a 10-year old Wrangler (or I might go 5-year old and pay a little more)

2 - Should I go with Class A or C? The C looks like it would be easier to drive and easier to get repaired. The A has a little more room and usability of the cockpit area in the home. I read one person say that people often go from a Class C to a Class A, but not so often the other direction especially for full-time living.

3 - Is there much off-roading that I can do and does it cost much? I'm thinking that national/state parks have restrictions on where you can go off-road and private areas probably charge a fee. This is new to me, but I had a motorcylce 30 years ago and going off-road was a lot of fun with it.
2022 JAYCO JAY FLIGHT SLX 8 324BDS
2022 FORD F-250 XL CREW CAB 4X4
All my exes live in Texas, that's why I live in an RV
40 REPLIES 40

Grit_dog
Nomad III
Nomad III
babock wrote:
bucky wrote:
The used car market is very volatile right now, all bets are off.
My brother runs an auto auction in California. According to him, its not volatile at all. Probably one of the most stable times for used auto/truck sales.


True statement. Economy is good, gas is cheap...ish. Cars are expensive!
Moreso now than Iโ€™ve seen in my 30 years of driving.
โ€œDealsโ€ are **** near non existent except on old or unpopular stuff.
To that point, been looking for a new(er) Charger SRT for the wife for over a year now.
Limiting myself to โ€˜15 and up for specific reasons, there are virtually none for sale by owner and I couldnโ€™t get under $41-42k for slightly used at several dealers, as a serious buyer. Ended up getting a new leftover for $44k which is mind numbing to me, but it literally was the best deal I seen within 1000miles for a year. It was over $13k off sticker, so zero drive off the lot depreciation at least, but Iโ€™m accustomed to buying vehicles that I could re sell for more for say the first year and it ainโ€™t happening right now.
We gave $18k for our 06 SRT 5 years and almost 100kmiles miles newer. If it had the same Miles now it would be worth the same from what I see. Zero age depriciation.
Heck, Iโ€™d only give up about 5grand from the purchase price on the Mega Cab 10 years and over 150kmiles later it I sold it tomorrow. Sounds stable to me.

Granted there are other factors besides the economy, like the instant internet access that normalizes vehicle prices across the board too, but IMO its a good time to sell, but not as good of a time to buy.
2016 Ram 2500, MotorOps.ca EFIlive tuned, 5โ€ turbo back, 6" lift on 37s
2017 Heartland Torque T29 - Sold.
Couple of Arctic Fox TCs - Sold

babock
Explorer
Explorer
bucky wrote:
The used car market is very volatile right now, all bets are off.
My brother runs an auto auction in California. According to him, its not volatile at all. Probably one of the most stable times for used auto/truck sales.

babock
Explorer
Explorer
I know you are a CPA and "know numbers well" but if the decisions between retiring and not retiring is so close that an auto accident makes it a go/no go decision, your finances aren't ready for you to retire.

BTW, friends don't let friends lease. Your example with the 250 Lease you showed before compares the financing of MSRP to a lease based on the same price. Since you can always get a vehicle for a lot less than MSRP, that comparison shows it is less expensive to buy/finance.

I have looked at every lease that members of my family and friends have done and maybe one has come out ahead on a lease. Even some with businesses would have been better off buying.

johnwalkerpa1
Explorer
Explorer
The lease pros/cons and alternate MH/toad options have been covered well so i won't rehash those...

But, in your original post, you said "My plan to retire in September, 2018 and live in an RV full-time is being re-evaluated. My plan was that when my auto lease was up in August, 2018 I could lease a big new tow vehicle (maybe an F-350) and buy a 2-3 year old travel trailer.".....

If you had already decided that was the best plan for you, I wouldn't let an unfortunate accident change your plans. Assuming that insurance makes you whole on the existing lease and you owe no money, why not just go ahead and get your new "post retirement" vehicle 7 months early? Its not like its years.

Maybe not an valid option if you currently drive 100 miles a day but if your daily mileage won't exceed your lease restrictions or cause you to spend an exorbitant extra amount in gas, just get the truck now. Its not that big a deal to use a truck as a daily driver. Just a thought.

Allworth
Explorer
Explorer
He doesn't mean a towable Class A. At least I don't think so! two towables PLUS a class C and a Class A, maybe.

Come to think of it, I did see a towable Class A one time. A big recovery wrecker was towing it.
Formerly posting as "littleblackdog"
Martha, Allen, & Blackjack
2006 Chevy 3500 D/A LB SRW, RVND 7710
Previously: 2008 Titanium 30E35SA. Currently no trailer due to age & mobility problems. Very sad!
"Real Jeeps have round headlights"

msturtz
Explorer
Explorer
We have some unique experience that may help you. We have owned two towable RVs, then a class C and finally a Class A. The towable units are less expensive if you already have a tow vehicle. Keep in mind that they require extra equipment that motorhomes typically include such as a generator leveling, boards, tow hitch (we had a $3000 Hensley hitch for safety). I also added a 100 gallon fuel tank to my 1 ton gasoline truck due to range issues in remote areas. All of this can make the cost similar to a class C new. Truck $60,000 + hitch and miscellaneous $5000, Travel trailer suitable for 4 season use $50,000. A class c is based on a van cutaway chassis the most capable and affordable is the E450. The thing to consider is they tend to be very loud when running. The wheel cut combined with the wheelbase means they have a large turning radius. Our 31โ€™ Class C had a 218โ€ wheelbase and a 45 degree wheel cut. Our 34โ€™ Class A DP has a 208โ€ wheelbase and a 55 degree wheelcut. I was mistaken that any Ford dealer could work on it. Trust me they wonโ€™t. Only Ford certified commercial truck shops will work on them. Keep in mind if you chose a motorhome of any kind and wish to tow a toad you will need a tow bar and brake system these typically cost between $3500 - $5000 installed. We love our DP Class A. It is quiet and easy to drive, the generator is very quiet as well. The systems are well integrated such as automatic generator start, whole house inverter system, residential refrigerator.
FMCA member

bucky
Explorer II
Explorer II
But he is asking about money, that brought lease versus purchase into the game.
Another fact about leasing versus buying. The money the lease will cost you is a $ figure set in stone at the time of the lease. Can you guarantee what you will get for your purchased 4 year old vehicle when you sell it? The used car market is very volatile right now, all bets are off.
Puma 30RKSS

DallasSteve
Nomad
Nomad
2gypsies

Thanks for that quick and thorough reply.

Steve
2022 JAYCO JAY FLIGHT SLX 8 324BDS
2022 FORD F-250 XL CREW CAB 4X4
All my exes live in Texas, that's why I live in an RV

2gypsies1
Explorer
Explorer
DallasSteve wrote:
2gypsies wrote:
DallasSteve wrote:
Is there much off-roading that I can do and does it cost much? I'm thinking that national/state parks have restrictions on where you can go off-road and private areas probably charge a fee.


There's no fee for off-roading with a Jeep. However, you just don't cut across lands and create your own trails. There are awesome established trails in the western states by using national forest and BLM lands. You can also boondock at beautiful spots on these lands - no charge.

We full-timed 8 years with a truck & 5th wheel. We always hated driving the truck. Our next 8 years were done with a motorhome and Jeep and we had so much fun. We've driven at 12,000' elevation in the gorgeous mountains on Jeeping trails. The scenery was unforgettable!

2gypsies

Thanks for your post on my thread. I looked up your Newmar Dutch Star Motorhome. That looks like it's close to the perfect set up for me to full-time with a Jeep. There are a few items that concern me and I wonder how you felt about them during your 8 years in that RV.

1 - It looks like it would be hard to turn corners in a motor home that long. Most of the travel would be straight, but sometimes you have to turn the corners. Was it much of a problem for you?

Never had problems turning corners. You just take your time; get prepared to swing wide. Use your signals and folks are very accommodating in giving you enough room.

2 - I've read that it can be hard to travel some roads because it is so wide. Is a Class A really wider that a Class C or a travel trailer and it is a problem on some roads?

We traveled secondary roads and forest service roads 95% of our time and didn't have issues.

3 - I've read it costs about $2,000 to replace the tires on a Class A and I see yours had at least 6 tires. Is that about the right price? I need to figure that in my budget. Is that once every 3 years or about how often?

Yes, have a budget for tires. The big ones are, indeed, expensive. It's recommended to change them by age not by looks. 7 yr. is the norm.

4 - Some people (like my brother who drives a Class C) say that a Class A is much more dangerous in an accident, especially a front-end impact. What do you think?

Never worried about it. In 16 years never had an accident. We've seen pictures of trucks getting hit head on and they aren't pretty either. One thing, you're sitting higher in a motorhome if that helps your thoughts.

5 - I don't want diesel for several reasons. Would a gasser with a front-end motor make a lot more noise in the cabin?

Yes.

6 - Some people comment that it is harder to find mechanics to service the Class A motorhomes. What was your experience?

We didn't need mechanics but they're out there for motorhomes. We found it easy to get regular servicing. We'd call a place in the direction we were heading in a few days; arrive as scheduled and in and out either that day or spend the night on their lot - mostly with electric - and left the next morning.

7 - If you were going to start full-time today in a Class A about what year model would you want to buy used?

Age isn't as important as upkeep. I'd try for 'by owner', if possible then you can see how he keeps his home/yard, too. Some owners have great pride in what they own. If the owner had all the maintenance records for you to see that would be an added plus. Also, for full-timing there are better quality RV manufacturers than for weekenders. We had a great experience with Newmar but there are others.

Regards, Steve
Full-Timed for 16 Years
.... Back in S&B Again
Traveled 8 yr in a 40' 2004 Newmar Dutch Star Motorhome
& 8 yr in a 33' Travel Supreme 5th Wheel

DallasSteve
Nomad
Nomad
2gypsies wrote:
DallasSteve wrote:
Is there much off-roading that I can do and does it cost much? I'm thinking that national/state parks have restrictions on where you can go off-road and private areas probably charge a fee.


There's no fee for off-roading with a Jeep. However, you just don't cut across lands and create your own trails. There are awesome established trails in the western states by using national forest and BLM lands. You can also boondock at beautiful spots on these lands - no charge.

We full-timed 8 years with a truck & 5th wheel. We always hated driving the truck. Our next 8 years were done with a motorhome and Jeep and we had so much fun. We've driven at 12,000' elevation in the gorgeous mountains on Jeeping trails. The scenery was unforgettable!

2gypsies

Thanks for your post on my thread. I looked up your Newmar Dutch Star Motorhome. That looks like it's close to the perfect set up for me to full-time with a Jeep. There are a few items that concern me and I wonder how you felt about them during your 8 years in that RV.

1 - It looks like it would be hard to turn corners in a motor home that long. Most of the travel would be straight, but sometimes you have to turn the corners. Was it much of a problem for you?

2 - I've read that it can be hard to travel some roads because it is so wide. Is a Class A really wider that a Class C or a travel trailer and it is a problem on some roads?

3 - I've read it costs about $2,000 to replace the tires on a Class A and I see yours had at least 6 tires. Is that about the right price? I need to figure that in my budget. Is that once every 3 years or about how often?

4 - Some people (like my brother who drives a Class C) say that a Class A is much more dangerous in an accident, especially a front-end impact. What do you think?

5 - I don't want diesel for several reasons. Would a gasser with a front-end motor make a lot more noise in the cabin?

6 - Some people comment that it is harder to find mechanics to service the Class A motorhomes. What was your experience?

7 - If you were going to start full-time today in a Class A about what year model would you want to buy used?

Regards, Steve
2022 JAYCO JAY FLIGHT SLX 8 324BDS
2022 FORD F-250 XL CREW CAB 4X4
All my exes live in Texas, that's why I live in an RV

spoon059
Explorer II
Explorer II
I'm confused... was the thread about motorhomes and toads versus truck and travel trailer and when to make purchases, or was it about leasing versus buying?

Everyone is entitled to their opinions about leasing vs buying... but unless the OP is spending YOUR money, your opinion about how he spends it isn't warranted.
2015 Ram CTD
2015 Jayco 29QBS

Grit_dog
Nomad III
Nomad III
ALot of โ€œoptimisticโ€ lease assumptions going on here. Yes there are situations where leases make financial sense, but if a person is somewhat saavy it wonโ€™t often be financially the optimum choice.
Anyone who thinks the mfg or bank is volunteering to take back plethoraโ€™s of 3 year old vehicles out of the kindness of their hearts is mistaken.
In the above scenario, yes you are basically financing the depreciation, and it may work if youโ€™re a pay sticker price and then take the dealer trade offer every 3 years kind of person. Then youโ€™re only paying slightly more, ie the profit for your convienence.

Proponents who are throwing out the weird scenarios like the Gremiln, go ahead and point out the more realistic traps like over mileage, vehicle damage etc and all the other fine print.
In general, a lease is a convienence. Not necessarily a bad thing. We all spend $ on convienences.
2016 Ram 2500, MotorOps.ca EFIlive tuned, 5โ€ turbo back, 6" lift on 37s
2017 Heartland Torque T29 - Sold.
Couple of Arctic Fox TCs - Sold

westernrvparkow
Explorer
Explorer
wing_zealot wrote:
sayoung wrote:
Trackrig wrote:
I've never understood leasing a vehicle. You never pay it off - you're always making a payment just like this going from one lease to the next lease and you never have anything you can sell or trade in, in the end????????

I don't think you should be leasing a new truck in retirement.

Bill

They are better known as a " FLEASE "
That's because you don't understand how a lease works.

When you lease a vehicle, you pay for the depreciated value of that vehicle over the term of the lease.

For example, letโ€™s say me and you obtain a vehicle worth $60,000. Also, letโ€™s assume the depreciation on that vehicle over 4 years is 40%. Now letโ€™s say you buy the vehicle over a 4 year period and I lease it over a 4 year period.

When you buy the vehicle, youโ€™re financing the full $60,000 over 4 years. When I lease I am financing the depreciation $24,000 ($60,000 x 40%) over 4 years. So at the end of the 4 years you have financed and paid for a $60K vehicle that is now worth $46k. At the end of the 4 year lease all I financed and paid for was the $24,000 that was used up (the depreciation). Thatโ€™s why a lease is always cheaper than buying.

But at the end, no one got fleeced, we both paid $24,000 to use the car for 4 years. You can now sell the car and get your $46,000 that you already paid for back if you want. And at the end of the lease, I can still buy the car for $46,000 if I want to.

You donโ€™t Have to take my word for this, look up how a lease works on the internet.
And most important, and almost always overlooked, is the fact that a lease gaurantees that three years in the future value. Gas goes to $8.00 a gallon and your gas guzzler becomes valueless, the bank takes the additional loss. If it goes the other way, and your AMC Gremlin becomes an instant collectible, you can still buy it for the residual value and then resell it to a museum for an instant, massive profit. Leasing removes the risk of excessive depreciation from the cost analysis of a new vehicle purchase.

wa8yxm
Explorer III
Explorer III
Most lease companies require you to have insurance. Thus you will be compensated for most of the loss. Plus most states the idiot who ran the light gets to pay the rest of the value of the leased vehicle.

SO long as you are not the AT FAULT driver. There is hope. If you are the one who ran the light.. Well then you screwed.. But then you should be.
Home was where I park it. but alas the.
2005 Damon Intruder 377 Alas declared a total loss
after a semi "nicked" it. Still have the radios
Kenwood TS-2000, ICOM ID-5100, ID-51A+2, ID-880 REF030C most times