Good Sam Club Open Roads Forum: Just curious - why Lithiums are so heavy?
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 > Just curious - why Lithiums are so heavy?

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Almot

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Posted: 01/07/18 06:22pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

GordonThree wrote:

Any battery abused will start a fire. Lithium Iron Phosphate is not the panacea.

Has everyone seen the 9v smoke detector battery and steel wool videos?

I meant that LiFe are saf-er. More stable material, harder to ignite when abused.

Mex - I don't understand about sellers asking phone and email. When you are checking out, you always provide name, shipping address, billing address. Occasionally - phone and email too. But ineptness and general "don't care" attitude of UPS delivery drivers negates the best efforts of a storefront web designer.

If they ask your phone and email BEFORE giving the price and shipping quote, - I don't contact those too. They sell wholesale, not retail. Or they haven't sold anything yet, a newly formed e-commerce hub trying to get in business, they will contact the distributor for prices, call around for a shipper etc. Not ready.

* This post was edited 01/07/18 06:44pm by Almot *

MrWizard

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Posted: 01/07/18 09:09pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

i think he was referring to thoose battery links
NO prices,
give email, request info


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valhalla360

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Posted: 01/08/18 03:58am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Almot wrote:


Valhalla - 30 lbs is obviously not 5 times less than 60 lbs, that's why I noted 1.5 higher usable capacity of Li. Still doesn't add to more than 3* capacity per weight.


The original post suggested 2-3 times as much:

Half the weight and 50% more capacity = 3 times as much capacity per pound.

The usable capacity is also a little more complicated. Since LA batteries tail off once they hit 80-90% of full charge, it's not uncommon to go between 50-80% charge each day (with occasional top ups to avoid damage). That means you only get 30% of the rated as usable. Compared to Lithium where you can get 70-90% depending on how hard you want to work them.

Do that and you do get up around 5 times more power on a per pound basis. Cost is another matter.


Tammy & Mike
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MrWizard

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Posted: 01/08/18 11:02am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I don't like the "by the weight" manipulation of numbers
We don't by batteries by the pound
We buy batteries by the amp-hours we need

I do agreed that if you have a 100 ampHr lead battery and do 50-90 while camping you only get 40 Amphrs use

If that is 100 Amphrs Li and you do 20-90 , you get 70 Amphrs use, 75% more useable capacity

And that is means a lot, but it's not 3X as much capacity

We buy them by what we can use, and how much space is available to store them

Space wise, you get about 75% more use for the same amount of space, although it weighs less

Energy density by weight, is an advertising ploy !

It's real, but it really does not come into play that often, in the RV, boating, off grid environments,
Space ships and electric vehicle.. Yes

* This post was edited 01/08/18 11:20am by MrWizard *

MEXICOWANDERER

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Posted: 01/08/18 11:13am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Buy lead acid. Go camping

Buy lithium. Stay at home. Go to work. Pay for lithium.

Bet for 90% of RV'ers I can clean out cubbies and compartments and pile half a ton of their never used "necessities" on their driveway. I had a epiphany several decades ago that rudely shocked me awake. Like waist line blubber, excess weight takes a terrible toll on just about everything.

So, before I carry a one pound leatherman tool, and wristwatch that I never need to look at I spend a moment and ask myself "Do I really need to take this?"

Quicksilver, is a ten wheel bus with 11.00x22.5 tires. It can carry an immense amount of weight. To my chagrin, I found out it can carry SO MUCH things looked for remain lost until a major cleanout and inventory is conducted.

Battery weight is the least of my concerns. You mileage may vary...

2oldman

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Posted: 01/08/18 11:15am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:

Buy lithium. Stay at home. Go to work. Pay for lithium.
Work your entire life. Save. Buy lithium. Go camping.

MrWizard

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Posted: 01/08/18 11:23am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Weight was never a real concern for me
Just the number of life cycles per dollar
That's why surplus server AGMs have been my friend

Almot

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Posted: 01/08/18 11:50am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

valhalla360 wrote:



The original post suggested 2-3 times as much:

Half the weight and 50% more capacity = 3 times as much capacity per pound.

Yes, up to 3 times less weight. The original post (don't remember where I got that stupid seller's quote) was talking about 5 times less weight of Li.

People charging their wet cells to 80% are ruining them. Generator charging to 99% is difficult, yes. Get solar.

Almot

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Posted: 01/08/18 11:54am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

2oldman wrote:

Work your entire life. Save.

And then die. A lot of good these savings will do you then [emoticon]

2oldman

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Posted: 01/08/18 12:08pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Almot wrote:

2oldman wrote:

Work your entire life. Save.
And then die. A lot of good these savings will do you then [emoticon]
Sounds like a 'live for today' philosophy from the 60s.

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