poor frame design on travel trailer

[trailernovice]

On our Crossroads Z1 252BH (year 2016), the a-frame/coupler is mounted underneath the main frame rails of the trailer, rather than butted up to the main frame rails...this configuration results in the coupler sitting about 8 inches lower than it would had the a-frame continued at the same level as the main rails...

What this causes is that the rig bottoms out on even mild bumps and inclines...the w/d bars scrape, the chains hit the roadway (causing the breakaway cable intertwined with the safety chain to scrape), and the umbilical scrapes...so far I've had to replace the umbilical and the breakaway once, and they both again need replacement...at some point I'll need to replace the w/d bars...

This issue never crossed my mind when I selected this unit...should've realized the issue before purchase...

Want to take a long road trip to the West this summer, but may actually not go unless I trade this unit...went to Big Bend last summer and even that amount of 'up the hill/down the hill' had everything bottoming out a lot.

Just passing this on for what it's worth

[Huntindog]

Grit dog wrote:
Well, trailer novice, even though you're clearly not looking for advice, that's what these boards are all about, so please consider the following.
Sales price to dump it and get another trailer....don't trade it, sell it outright.
Fixing the issue....cutting and re welding the hitch is the last thing I'd do unless doing it myself. But, if the trailer has leaf springs, you can run it a little nose high no problem. Which sounds like it will gain you significant ground clearance. If it has torsion axles need to keep it pretty level.
Next best option IMO is to flip or lift the axles. Not typically as big a deal as welding a new tongue on in my book. My 32' snowmachine trailer has the same design for the hitch, but no clearance issue due to it being a deck over axle trailer design. Floor of the trailer is over 2' off the ground, on the level, takes a pretty big dip to bottom it out in back.

x2.
That is what should have been done from the factory. You would likely want to install a 3 step replacing your current 2 step.

FWIW, My 2010 Palomono Sabre has the the under slung A frame, axles under the springs and 3 steps.
There is nothing inherently wrong with your Frame design. Just a mismatch of parts in the design.

This proper fix can be done for a reasonable price. I could do it for the price of the steps and and 4 spring perches... But I can weld. YMMV.

[Grit_dog]

Well, trailer novice, even though you're clearly not looking for advice, that's what these boards are all about, so please consider the following.
Sales price to dump it and get another trailer....don't trade it, sell it outright.
Fixing the issue....cutting and re welding the hitch is the last thing I'd do unless doing it myself. But, if the trailer has leaf springs, you can run it a little nose high no problem. Which sounds like it will gain you significant ground clearance. If it has torsion axles need to keep it pretty level.
Next best option IMO is to flip or lift the axles. Not typically as big a deal as welding a new tongue on in my book. My 32' snowmachine trailer has the same design for the hitch, but no clearance issue due to it being a deck over axle trailer design. Floor of the trailer is over 2' off the ground, on the level, takes a pretty big dip to bottom it out in back.

[trailernovice]

JBarca's images illustrate the issue...to answer his question, yes--this hitch was used on a previous unit (2011 Palomino Puma 25BH...very similar in size/weight/layout to current TT, but 'conventional' A-frame design rather than the 'underhung' on the current trailer)

For now, I've gone with the 'raise the hitch ball' suggestion made be several post-ers...thanks for that! Raising it one notch up the shank gained me a few inches without making the rig nose-high...We'll see how that works...should avoid most of the scraping/bottoming out...

if that still happens, will look into the equalizer hitch some have recommended...

what WON'T happen is a trade just to resolve this one issue...just out of curiosity I looked into what a dealer would offer as trade-in value (understanding that at the end of the day, the REAL issue is the difference between the number the dealer puts on the trade-in and the selling price of their unit...ex. dealer may offer what seems like tremendous value for the trade-in but make up the difference by sticking at or close to MSRP)...we were just too far apart...

[JBarca]

Ralph Cramden wrote:


You have a 2004 shown in your sig, and Palomino is no longer associated with Sabre as Forest River broke them apart awhile ago. I am fairly sure a Palomino Sabre 30BHDS would of been a 2010/2011 or earlier?

I can see rolled shapes being used back then, but not today. I've never heard them called manufactured housing beams, we call them MWB's. (machine welded beam).

No different than every structural member in a pre-engineered metal buildings used as warehouses and manufacturing facilities.

Anyhow not an issue as just because a beam is rolled does not necessarily equate to it being stronger than a machine welded and fabricated beam. The details are in the engineering and the actual assembly, which is where Lippert drops the ball.

Hi Ralph,

My 2004 Sunline was built in Nov 2003. (Sunline went out in late 2006) Sunline subcontracted to Lippert in the Denver PA plant for my frame which was not far from the Sunline factory. I don't know which plant built Huntindog's frame, just we hooked up and exchanged notes when I had a main frame rail bend stemmed from a brutal pothole concrete interstate road.

For the MH beams or thin I beams, see there. Steel of West Virginia This mill shows the 10" x 9#/foot version I have which has an area moment of inertia of 35.5 in.^4th.

Huntingdog's frame is closer to a 10" x 13.2#/foot with an area moment of inertia of 50.6 in.^4th. His vintage is stronger and the one he ended up with was a good one. I wish mine was that heavy.

Welded I shape beams, I have not seen them (yet anyway), I will take your word for them as I can see them being made that way. I have seen the laser welded angle shapes so I would not doubt they can do the I shape. And yes, done right they are comparable to rolled beams in some applications. I will look closer at the RV lot next time I go that has a large qty of FR branded campers. I was more looking quick to stay away from an 8" frame and axles not rated for the full GVWR. Did not look right up close at the flange radius or lack thereof. Will do next time.

Thanks

John

[Huntindog]

Ralph Cramden wrote:

JBarca wrote:

SidecarFlip wrote:


In as much as I live 60 miles from the factory (Palomino), I've been there numerous time and I've never seen a 'I' beam anywhere on the property except as part of the building structure.

No one that I know of, not even shanty builders use I' beams. They are all fabricated (welded) hot rolled steel, usually the cheapest stuff they can get.

Huntindog wrote:
You really hang out at the Palomino Sabre factory?
I have been there once. When I toured the factory after picking up my new Sabre. I have pics of my models frame on the production line. I have shared them with Jbarca in email conversations. He can vouch for them. I am not setup to post them here on this forum.... But yes my frame is a TRUE I beam frame. 1/4" thick as I measured it with a dial caliper.
Lippert can produce a HD quality frame, IF the manufacturer is willing to pay for it.

Since I was mentioned and I have been following this post, I'll comment. Huntindogs Sabre 10" frame is one of the so called RV I beam frames and his has 1/4" flanges and web which is heavier than most I have seen on a TT. Many are more commonly 3/16".

He has a special one that at the time it was made, Palomino was putting them under the Sabre campers of his weight range. Remember Forest River bought Palomino and things may have changed in recent years verses when his camper was made. I do not know the current day Palomino practices if they are the same, but his vintage was a heavier 10" beam. His is not welded, the frame rails are rolled you can tell by the fillets between the web and flanges.

As far as the RV industry I beam, I myself do not consider them I beams. A true I beam has very thick and wide tapered flanges. These beams we have in our campers are called MH beams at some of the steel mills. MH standing for "Manufacture Housing" beam. They are made just for them. The RV industry jumped on the MH wagon as it is a way to get a higher section modulus (A size/shape/strength calculation) of a beam due to the shape at less weight. Many are made from high strength low carbon steel to get higher strength from the shape. They are not A36 steel but in the 50ksi yield range. A572-50 or A529-50 or other similar steel.

Mine camper and Hunting dog's are 10" tall beams on similar GVWR campers. His frame is heavier than mine in the thickness area. Looking at the RV lots on current day Forest River frames and even some Jayco's I have seen, the new craze seems to be downsizing the 10" to 8" on 10,000# to 11,000 GVWR campers. Each brand within the FR line does something different. You can see this in the Rockwood line and others. Some are 8" some are 10" but the GVWR is the same area. I have even seen larger 5er's with these 8" frames. Not for me. The 10" is not adequate for all conditions on a 10K GVWR camper and going to 8 must of been a cost cutting thing or something.

Hope this helps

John

You have a 2004 shown in your sig, and Palomino is no longer associated with Sabre as Forest River broke them apart awhile ago. I am fairly sure a Palomino Sabre 30BHDS would of been a 2010/2011 or earlier?

I can see rolled shapes being used back then, but not today. I've never heard them called manufactured housing beams, we call them MWB's. (machine welded beam).

No different than every structural member in a pre-engineered metal buildings used as warehouses and manufacturing facilities.

Anyhow not an issue as just because a beam is rolled does not necessarily equate to it being stronger than a machine welded and fabricated beam. The details are in the engineering and the actual assembly, which is where Lippert drops the ball.

My Palomino Sabre is a 2010. Not sure where you came up with 2004.
Sabre no longer makes TTs. Only 5vers.
That is too bad, they made a quality TT.

The welded beams were around back in 2010. I remeber bad reports back then, and knew to avoid them.

[Ralph_Cramden]

JBarca wrote:

SidecarFlip wrote:


In as much as I live 60 miles from the factory (Palomino), I've been there numerous time and I've never seen a 'I' beam anywhere on the property except as part of the building structure.

No one that I know of, not even shanty builders use I' beams. They are all fabricated (welded) hot rolled steel, usually the cheapest stuff they can get.

Huntindog wrote:
You really hang out at the Palomino Sabre factory?
I have been there once. When I toured the factory after picking up my new Sabre. I have pics of my models frame on the production line. I have shared them with Jbarca in email conversations. He can vouch for them. I am not setup to post them here on this forum.... But yes my frame is a TRUE I beam frame. 1/4" thick as I measured it with a dial caliper.
Lippert can produce a HD quality frame, IF the manufacturer is willing to pay for it.

Since I was mentioned and I have been following this post, I'll comment. Huntindogs Sabre 10" frame is one of the so called RV I beam frames and his has 1/4" flanges and web which is heavier than most I have seen on a TT. Many are more commonly 3/16".

He has a special one that at the time it was made, Palomino was putting them under the Sabre campers of his weight range. Remember Forest River bought Palomino and things may have changed in recent years verses when his camper was made. I do not know the current day Palomino practices if they are the same, but his vintage was a heavier 10" beam. His is not welded, the frame rails are rolled you can tell by the fillets between the web and flanges.

As far as the RV industry I beam, I myself do not consider them I beams. A true I beam has very thick and wide tapered flanges. These beams we have in our campers are called MH beams at some of the steel mills. MH standing for "Manufacture Housing" beam. They are made just for them. The RV industry jumped on the MH wagon as it is a way to get a higher section modulus (A size/shape/strength calculation) of a beam due to the shape at less weight. Many are made from high strength low carbon steel to get higher strength from the shape. They are not A36 steel but in the 50ksi yield range. A572-50 or A529-50 or other similar steel.

Mine camper and Hunting dog's are 10" tall beams on similar GVWR campers. His frame is heavier than mine in the thickness area. Looking at the RV lots on current day Forest River frames and even some Jayco's I have seen, the new craze seems to be downsizing the 10" to 8" on 10,000# to 11,000 GVWR campers. Each brand within the FR line does something different. You can see this in the Rockwood line and others. Some are 8" some are 10" but the GVWR is the same area. I have even seen larger 5er's with these 8" frames. Not for me. The 10" is not adequate for all conditions on a 10K GVWR camper and going to 8 must of been a cost cutting thing or something.

Hope this helps

John

You have a 2004 shown in your sig, and Palomino is no longer associated with Sabre as Forest River broke them apart awhile ago. I am fairly sure a Palomino Sabre 30BHDS would of been a 2010/2011 or earlier?

I can see rolled shapes being used back then, but not today. I've never heard them called manufactured housing beams, we call them MWB's. (machine welded beam).

No different than every structural member in a pre-engineered metal buildings used as warehouses and manufacturing facilities.

Anyhow not an issue as just because a beam is rolled does not necessarily equate to it being stronger than a machine welded and fabricated beam. The details are in the engineering and the actual assembly, which is where Lippert drops the ball.

[Ralph_Cramden]

JBarca wrote:

SidecarFlip wrote:


In as much as I live 60 miles from the factory (Palomino), I've been there numerous time and I've never seen a 'I' beam anywhere on the property except as part of the building structure.

No one that I know of, not even shanty builders use I' beams. They are all fabricated (welded) hot rolled steel, usually the cheapest stuff they can get.

Huntindog wrote:
You really hang out at the Palomino Sabre factory?
I have been there once. When I toured the factory after picking up my new Sabre. I have pics of my models frame on the production line. I have shared them with Jbarca in email conversations. He can vouch for them. I am not setup to post them here on this forum.... But yes my frame is a TRUE I beam frame. 1/4" thick as I measured it with a dial caliper.
Lippert can produce a HD quality frame, IF the manufacturer is willing to pay for it.

Since I was mentioned and I have been following this post, I'll comment. Huntindogs Sabre 10" frame is one of the so called RV I beam frames and his has 1/4" flanges and web which is heavier than most I have seen on a TT. Many are more commonly 3/16".

He has a special one that at the time it was made, Palomino was putting them under the Sabre campers of his weight range. Remember Forest River bought Palomino and things may have changed in recent years verses when his camper was made. I do not know the current day Palomino practices if they are the same, but his vintage was a heavier 10" beam. His is not welded, the frame rails are rolled you can tell by the fillets between the web and flanges.

As far as the RV industry I beam, I myself do not consider them I beams. A true I beam has very thick and wide tapered flanges. These beams we have in our campers are called MH beams at some of the steel mills. MH standing for "Manufacture Housing" beam. They are made just for them. The RV industry jumped on the MH wagon as it is a way to get a higher section modulus (A size/shape/strength calculation) of a beam due to the shape at less weight. Many are made from high strength low carbon steel to get higher strength from the shape. They are not A36 steel but in the 50ksi yield range. A572-50 or A529-50 or other similar steel.

Mine camper and Hunting dog's are 10" tall beams on similar GVWR campers. His frame is heavier than mine in the thickness area. Looking at the RV lots on current day Forest River frames and even some Jayco's I have seen, the new craze seems to be downsizing the 10" to 8" on 10,000# to 11,000 GVWR campers. Each brand within the FR line does something different. You can see this in the Rockwood line and others. Some are 8" some are 10" but the GVWR is the same area. I have even seen larger 5er's with these 8" frames. Not for me. The 10" is not adequate for all conditions on a 10K GVWR camper and going to 8 must of been a cost cutting thing or something.

Hope this helps

John

You have a 2004 shown in your sig, and Palomino is no longer associated with Sabre as Forest River broke them apart awhile ago. I am fairly sure a Palomino Sabre 30

[JBarca]

SidecarFlip wrote:


In as much as I live 60 miles from the factory (Palomino), I've been there numerous time and I've never seen a 'I' beam anywhere on the property except as part of the building structure.

No one that I know of, not even shanty builders use I' beams. They are all fabricated (welded) hot rolled steel, usually the cheapest stuff they can get.

Huntindog wrote:
You really hang out at the Palomino Sabre factory?
I have been there once. When I toured the factory after picking up my new Sabre. I have pics of my models frame on the production line. I have shared them with Jbarca in email conversations. He can vouch for them. I am not setup to post them here on this forum.... But yes my frame is a TRUE I beam frame. 1/4" thick as I measured it with a dial caliper.
Lippert can produce a HD quality frame, IF the manufacturer is willing to pay for it.

Since I was mentioned and I have been following this post, I'll comment. Huntindogs Sabre 10" frame is one of the so called RV I beam frames and his has 1/4" flanges and web which is heavier than most I have seen on a TT. Many are more commonly 3/16".

He has a special one that at the time it was made, Palomino was putting them under the Sabre campers of his weight range. Remember Forest River bought Palomino and things may have changed in recent years verses when his camper was made. I do not know the current day Palomino practices if they are the same, but his vintage was a heavier 10" beam. His is not welded, the frame rails are rolled you can tell by the fillets between the web and flanges.

As far as the RV industry I beam, I myself do not consider them I beams. A true I beam has very thick and wide tapered flanges. These beams we have in our campers are called MH beams at some of the steel mills. MH standing for "Manufacture Housing" beam. They are made just for them. The RV industry jumped on the MH wagon as it is a way to get a higher section modulus (A size/shape/strength calculation) of a beam due to the shape at less weight. Many are made from high strength low carbon steel to get higher strength from the shape. They are not A36 steel but in the 50ksi yield range. A572-50 or A529-50 or other similar steel.

Mine camper and Hunting dog's are 10" tall beams on similar GVWR campers. His frame is heavier than mine in the thickness area. Looking at the RV lots on current day Forest River frames and even some Jayco's I have seen, the new craze seems to be downsizing the 10" to 8" on 10,000# to 11,000 GVWR campers. Each brand within the FR line does something different. You can see this in the Rockwood line and others. Some are 8" some are 10" but the GVWR is the same area. I have even seen larger 5er's with these 8" frames. Not for me. The 10" is not adequate for all conditions on a 10K GVWR camper and going to 8 must of been a cost cutting thing or something.

Hope this helps

John

[Huntindog]

SidecarFlip wrote:

Huntindog wrote:

Ralph Cramden wrote:

Huntindog wrote:

mountainkowboy wrote:

SidecarFlip wrote:

Old-Biscuit wrote:
With that type of A-frame/trailer frame I would be more concerned with 'failure'

Saw that and tight away thought of Lippert components.

Lippert builds ****, I've seen 12 year olds that can weld better than them.

I have had 3 different TTs with 3 different frame makers. My present one is Lippert. It is by far the best.
Very heavy duty and top notch welds. I am a welder, so I know a little about the subject.

Having said that, I think a lot of the credit goes to the TT builder as to what they spec in a frame... As for the welds... Why is everyone buying these TTs that have bad welds?
They are usually pretty easy to spot on a TT. Even when new.

A good weld, generally looks good, even to the untrained eye. Bad welds, (like my first well used TT) are just the opposite. That first of mine had terrible welds. It never caused any trouble, probably because it was way heavier than needed. I guess in 1973, using very heavy metal was the solution.

Today, like everything else, most builders buy JUST ENOUGH to barely do the job.

You must have recieved a fluke from Lippert. From what I have seen on every Lippert frame I have owned (3), or have seen that were owned by others or at dealers and shows, the welding looks like donkey dung. I have a little experience with welding from 30+ years in commercial and Industrial construction management.

We bought a 2013 Keystone based on seeing a friend's 2012 which was the same model. His 2012 was on a frame made by Dexter. Our 2013 had a Lippert frame as Lippert had acquired Dexters axle division. What a difference.

What brand and model trailer has this great Lippert frame? I am seriously curious.

An RV manufacturer specs the frame as to overall dimensions, weight of trailer, and other design considerations but Lippert does the actual design and engineering and are the ones backing the frame from a warranty perspective. Good luck with that fight if you ever need that warranty. The RV manufacturer is looking for the cheapest price and Lippert will provide. What they save on the frame is used on the cheap eye candy which helps sales (also mostly supplied by Lippert) without affecting bottom line.

Some of the welding and more importantly reinforcement were so questionable on our 2017 Rockwood, within the first month of ownership I was adding additional reinforcement as well as fabricating water tank supports.

My TT is a Palomino Sabre 30BHDS.

It has a real I beam frame. 10" tall and 1/4" thick. It is more stout than most TTs of it's size.

Sabre is a FR company, but they let it run as a seperate entity.
It is noticeable in the floor plans and features. They are different from the other FR brands.

As for Lippert, I had an axle problem out of warranty.
Lippert could have easily weasled on me. But they stood up and treated me right. I wrote about that here on this forum at the time.

I consider Lippert a stand up company That tries to do the right thing.

In as much as I live 60 miles from the factory (Palomino), I've been there numerous time and I've never seen a 'I' beam anywhere on the property except as part of the building structure.

No one that I know of, not even shanty builders use I' beams. They are all fabricated (welded) hot rolled steel, usually the cheapest stuff they can get.

You really hang out at the Palomino Sabre factory?
I have been there once. When I toured the factory after picking up my new Sabre. I have pics of my models frame on the production line. I have shared them with Jbarca in email conversations. He can vouch for them. I am not setup to post them here on this forum.... But yes my frame is a TRUE I beam frame. 1/4" thick as I measured it with a dial caliper.
Lippert can produce a HD quality frame, IF the manufacturer is willing to pay for it.

[SidecarFlip]

...and, the picture of the trailer with the bent frame... It's obvious that it's extremely overloaded you can tell that by looking in the storage compartment. Another one of those RV'ers that 'take the house along'....

Something my wife and I never do. We only take essentials for a trip and nothing more.

[SidecarFlip]

Huntindog wrote:

Ralph Cramden wrote:

Huntindog wrote:

mountainkowboy wrote:

SidecarFlip wrote:

Old-Biscuit wrote:
With that type of A-frame/trailer frame I would be more concerned with 'failure'

Saw that and tight away thought of Lippert components.

Lippert builds ****, I've seen 12 year olds that can weld better than them.

I have had 3 different TTs with 3 different frame makers. My present one is Lippert. It is by far the best.
Very heavy duty and top notch welds. I am a welder, so I know a little about the subject.

Having said that, I think a lot of the credit goes to the TT builder as to what they spec in a frame... As for the welds... Why is everyone buying these TTs that have bad welds?
They are usually pretty easy to spot on a TT. Even when new.

A good weld, generally looks good, even to the untrained eye. Bad welds, (like my first well used TT) are just the opposite. That first of mine had terrible welds. It never caused any trouble, probably because it was way heavier than needed. I guess in 1973, using very heavy metal was the solution.

Today, like everything else, most builders buy JUST ENOUGH to barely do the job.

You must have recieved a fluke from Lippert. From what I have seen on every Lippert frame I have owned (3), or have seen that were owned by others or at dealers and shows, the welding looks like donkey dung. I have a little experience with welding from 30+ years in commercial and Industrial construction management.

We bought a 2013 Keystone based on seeing a friend's 2012 which was the same model. His 2012 was on a frame made by Dexter. Our 2013 had a Lippert frame as Lippert had acquired Dexters axle division. What a difference.

What brand and model trailer has this great Lippert frame? I am seriously curious.

An RV manufacturer specs the frame as to overall dimensions, weight of trailer, and other design considerations but Lippert does the actual design and engineering and are the ones backing the frame from a warranty perspective. Good luck with that fight if you ever need that warranty. The RV manufacturer is looking for the cheapest price and Lippert will provide. What they save on the frame is used on the cheap eye candy which helps sales (also mostly supplied by Lippert) without affecting bottom line.

Some of the welding and more importantly reinforcement were so questionable on our 2017 Rockwood, within the first month of ownership I was adding additional reinforcement as well as fabricating water tank supports.

My TT is a Palomino Sabre 30BHDS.

It has a real I beam frame. 10" tall and 1/4" thick. It is more stout than most TTs of it's size.

Sabre is a FR company, but they let it run as a seperate entity.
It is noticeable in the floor plans and features. They are different from the other FR brands.

As for Lippert, I had an axle problem out of warranty.
Lippert could have easily weasled on me. But they stood up and treated me right. I wrote about that here on this forum at the time.

I consider Lippert a stand up company That tries to do the right thing.

In as much as I live 60 miles from the factory (Palomino), I've been there numerous time and I've never seen a 'I' beam anywhere on the property except as part of the building structure.

No one that I know of, not even shanty builders use I' beams. They are all fabricated (welded) hot rolled steel, usually the cheapest stuff they can get.

I've never said they screw everybody. They do however screw a fair number.

There is a huge labor issue in north central Indiana so in a dried up labor pool, if it has a pulse and can pass a pee test, you hire it.... and that shows in spades in RV's and not just FR products either.

I always get a chuckle out of the 'Amish Craftsmen' line. Having dealt with the Amish for many years, I'm here to tell you they don't give a darn about craftsmanship, they are just there to collect a paycheck. Having said that, I'm sure there are some good ones who do care but, for the most part, they are just a clock number.

Until supply outpaces demand nothing will change. When that happens (and it will), the overall build quality will improve. Until then, it will always be a crapshoot.

[Huntindog]

trailernovice wrote:
Just curious...is there some advantage to this design that I'm missing? Having a trailer coupler sit lower to the ground wouldn't seem to have any benefit at all, especially since the height of the trailer itself doesn't change...I'm trying to understand why a trailer frame/coupler would be designed this way in the first place

TTs that use this design generally sit higher, which gives more ground clearance. FWIW, If my TT had the other design, I would have to turn the drop hitch over to make it a rise. The disadvantage of that is it would likely interfere with opening the tailgate

[goducks10]

trailernovice wrote:
Just curious...is there some advantage to this design that I'm missing? Having a trailer coupler sit lower to the ground wouldn't seem to have any benefit at all, especially since the height of the trailer itself doesn't change...I'm trying to understand why a trailer frame/coupler would be designed this way in the first place

My guess is it's faster to build. No cutting out of the front cross piece. Less welding as well. You only have 2 small weld points when you run the A frame under the frame.
Running it through the from cross piece you need to weld more in the contact points. Plus no time to cut out the slots for the A frame to run through the cross piece.

[trailernovice]

Just curious...is there some advantage to this design that I'm missing? Having a trailer coupler sit lower to the ground wouldn't seem to have any benefit at all, especially since the height of the trailer itself doesn't change...I'm trying to understand why a trailer frame/coupler would be designed this way in the first place