Chassis?Starter Grp 31 AGM. CROWN1 AGM?

[Smitty77]

I've been spending a few weeks trying to save my current CAT 8D Maintenance Free Starter Battery, due to an unfortunate few days of drain from Fog Lights being left on. (Pretty sure I have them back, about 5 years of age now, and have been abused by low voltage drops about 4-5 times in that timeframe, due to varying reasons. Going to run with them for this years early short trip, and see how they do...). Note: Very pleased with the performance of this battery, 1500 CCA, and I pretend to add water a few times a year.

As I've been bringing them back, I also started researching replacement options. I want to go to AGM Chassis this time around (Won't go into the reasons why, as it's not relevant in my upcoming question.).

Also thinking of going to X's2 GRP31 AGM Chassis this time around. (Cummins ISL, well supported via X'a 1 8D today.).

I've read here, and many other places, the discussions with varying opinions on both Deep Cycle and Marine Cycle Grp 31 AGM's (Good thread last year on these, as well as a few wet cells tossed in along the way, and GEL too:)!).

This specially for Starter/Chassis duty, of which I admit, Marine Grp 31's AGM's would probably do an adequate job of supporting. And I'm focusing on the upper tier/quality of batteries. I've kept my research down to Lifeline (Which I'm a happy user of X's 4 L16's for House duty.), Trojan, Fullriver. (Fullriver due to price point, and specific feedback I've received from a few RV'er's that have had good results (So far:)!) with House Duty Fullriver's.).

-Cost no object, Lifeline GRP31 Starter X's2 (The way I was leaning when i started.)

-A little savings on cost, Trojan Overdrive GRP31 X's 2 (Good spec's, but not much info on usage.)

-A log of cost savings, Fullriver FullThrottle GRP31 X's2 (Also good spec's. But also not as much info on usage.) (If I had had to buy quickly, I'd source a good deal on a 8D AGM Starter, with help from friend's 'Good Guy' (Mean's I buy the next few rounds of beers:)!) discount.)

I stopped researching once I got a warm feeling that the CAT 8D Maintenance Free Starter battery would support us a bit longer. But, received some private emails from others (Including some buddies in the boating community.), asking me for more input and opinions. (As much as I was asking them too!)

Along these emails, Crown1 AGM batteries came up. Many people I know, have been extremely pleased with the quality of the Crown batterie they're using in House (Boating House too), and also Off Grid Home usage too. From banks of X's2 Wet - all the way up to X's 24 Wet (L16's) in a home in Arizona.

So, now my question. Anyone yet use a Crown AGM (Crown1) battery? House and or Starter, though they're different animals. Anyone every do deep research on Crown AGM's (Which I believe are relatively newer product(?)).

Here is a link to the Crown AGM (I was looking at the CRV31S model):

https://www.crownbattery.com/hubfs/October%201%20rebrand/Crown1/CROWN1%20AGM-Starter%20Batteries.pdf?hsCtaTracking=06b0ddf0-98b6-4584-b652-3b32da12a75f%7C23545736-01c9-48b0-8eaa-7ab253605f2d

Here is a link to the Trojan AGM, Overdrive:

http://www.trojanbattery.com/pdf/datasheets/OverDriveAGM31_Trojan_Data_Sheets.pdf

And here is a link to the Fullriver Full Throttle AGM starter:

http://www.fullriverbattery.com/product/batteries/FT1100-31

And here is a link to the Lifeline AGM Starter:

http://lifelinebatteries.com/products/marine-batteries/gpl-3100t/

And finally! A semi apology for starting another 'battery comparison thread'. But most of the ones I read here, and on other boards, are usually talking House usage, with some dabbling of Marine mixed too... (And notice I did not include the SAM's Club Duracell (Branded) AGM GRP31 (They have both a Marine and Starter/Trucking ones available, and I admit at the most attractive e price of all... But, I usually don't go total 'bargain price' shopping for items I consider rather critical to functionality and safety of the rig. Starting is important:)! Good chance they'd serve me well for 3-6 years, but I'll pay a bit extra now, for at least the 'perception' of higher quality, and thus hopefully functioning when needed Chassis/Starter batteries.)

Best to all,
Smitty

[AbdRahim]

Wow. I don't like having to check the water in the FLA battery, especially in the mid winter cold, but all the charging protocols etc FLA vs AGM and if there is something other than convenience gained with the higher cost of AGM is way too confusing. I guess I will stay with the standard wet batteries, my smart charger and plan to replace the every 5-6 years. In the meantime enjoy camping.

[Smitty77]

"Freshening" for AGM before putting in service is sort of what I did. Compromised based upon gear on hand:)!

I game up with between 3 - 6 Amps per 100AH rating of the battery for about 3 hours.

I used 15 amps (255AH rating of the GPL-8DA), for three hours.

When I got home after picking it up the Sam Dimas Lifeline Warehouse, it had a reading of 12.83V (Which I thought was pretty good!). After the 15 amps for 3 hours, and then setting over night for about 18 hours, I had a reading of 12.92V (Which I was again OK with.).

It was installed in the coach that same day, and saw it's first alternator (200A) charge feed as we drove home from the shop for about an hour.

So I think it started it's life out OK, for my Chassis duty.

Since then, it's been Magnum SBC connection maintained. RV is parked next to the garage in storage, pending out first trip of the year late next week. House batteries typically reflect Full Charge, or sometimes Float, every time I pop into the coach for various reasons. (Magnum MS2812 with BMK-Meter and Temp Sensor and Smart Battery Combiner wedding the Aux/Chassis battery. Custom program set to the new Lifeline February change to a bit higher Float values.)

Over the last 8 days, I've taken five readings of the Chassis. (It is not disconnected, as both the battery disconnect and the salesman switch remain on while in storage, so some normal maintenance draws off of the Chassis battery.) The values started on day 2 after parking the rig, and last one was day 8. First value of 12.89V, each of the readings afterwards stepped down slightly, until the day 8 reading of 12.79V yesterday.

As I understand it, the House Battery does not kick into Charge/Float mold until it dips to ~12.6V(?). Which has not happened often in this 8 days. I've seen Float twice, on my periodic pop ins to the coach. So the SBC has not had much chance to 'share the charge' with the Chassis - as the Magnum Charger has usually indicated Full Charge. (Note, BMK meter, and monitoring of SOC and Total AH's Out/In support that the House Bank X's 4 L16 Lifelines, are topped off well.).

Enjoying watching the dynamics of all of this, and will continuing taking readings for the next week while in storage mode until we leave. Good Hmmm info it be:)!

And thanks again for all yours feedback for this full thread. But also from my last question about Topping Off after reading the T-105 thread on breaking in new batteries. Wanted to make sure I was not missing something before putting this into full service:)!

Smitty

[MEXICOWANDERER]

There's an easier way.

Connect the converter to the battery. With all hotel loads off, start the converter. How many amps are going into the battery? More than ten amps for longer than ten minutes? If yes a "freshening" charge is indicated. Different values than the Top Charge for flooded batteries. "Freshening charge for AGM -- Top charge for flooded cyclable batteries".

[BFL13]

Any new battery from the battery store has been sitting on the shelf for however long. Policy is to give it a good charge, a "top charge", as soon as you get it home. Flooded or AGM same thing, so it is up to speed for when you start using it.

[Smitty77]

Thanks to you both!! And yes, I have printed the Lifeline Feb, 2017 Technical Manual, and Lifeline provide a nice four page Owners Manual with the GPL-8DA. I have adjusted both the Magnum MS2812 and Classic 150 to the new values for Float.

When I read the thread here on the T-105's in the gents Golf Cart, one question was in regards to New Battery Break In. It was suggested he Top Off his batteries to begin with, at a higher charging voltage.

Lifeline's have the Conditioning value of 15.58V at 70 degrees. I would assume any value below 15.58V should be safe for the AGM Valves(?).

My basic question is it recommended to Top Off AGM's, as was the recommendation for the T-105. If so, any suggested voltage and time length to dos so?

And note, my ~ 5-6 years old Lifeline L16's were installed, and the MS2812 and Classic 150 took care of charging them since new. I did no 'new battery break in' for them.

And, I'm at my best when the answer is to 'do nothing'. My DW claims it's my best skillset:)!!!

Best to the two of you, and all,
Smitty

[BFL13]

Lifeline has good info on their website about how to charge them and if needed recondition them including all the proper voltage specs. Just do what it says 🙂

Lifeline AGMs tend to have lower charging voltage specs than some other AGMs, but also they tolerate higher charging amps than other AGMs will. Don't screw up and use "other AGM" routines on your costly Lifelines.

[pianotuna]

Smitty77,

On an AGM you do not wish to exceed the gassing voltage. Of course that is temperature dependent.

[Smitty77]

Back again. Recent thread on breaking in new T-105's in a golf cart was a good read. 15V topping off charge was recommended. (As well as answering the OP's question about lower discharge and more frequent full charge should equate to longer battery life.) I started to do a mini hijack on that thread, to ask about AGM battery break in.

So, new Lifeline GPL-8DA installed for Starter duty. Is Topping Off a high charge of say 15.3-15.5V, or some other value(?), also a good idea for Lifeline's too? (While I'm at home for the next week, I have access to a charger that I can set the charge voltage of, and length of time.)

Put in this thread, as it stays with AGM's as well as the end result of my Lifeline choice.

TIA for any thoughts, and best to all,
Smitty

[pnichols]

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
Sure would like a number for the thickness of the positive plate.

David, I'm not sure which I prefer most if I can't have both - thick plates or good specifications (assuming of course "good specifications" that are telling the truth).

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Sure would like a number for the thickness of the positive plate. 🙂

[pnichols]

Greg, congrats on your new Lifeline!

It's too late now for you, but as a reference point for others looking here's what we have two-of for RV house batteries (and BTW they are pretty good looking):
http://www.fullriverbattery.com/product/batteries/DC115-12
http://resources.fullriverbattery.com/fullriver-battery/brochure/dc-series.pdf

Note that even though they are true deep cycle AGM batteries for great set it and forget it RV cycle service, the CCA of two of them in parallel is not too shabby at 2 X 910 amps = 1820 amps. They cost only a bit less than the same size Lifelines and are only about 3 lbs less weight, each, at 72 lbs versus Lifeline's 75 lbs..

[landyacht318]

Congrats on being the proud owner of a fresh 8D lifeline.

More than Enough CCA, and one can tap its capacity in case of emergency.

My Northstar was originally intended as a bragging rights super high CCA starting battery whose capacity I could tap, should it be required.

It later proved to be an excellent dual purpose battery as I use and recharge it. I do not miss having a dedicated starting and a dedicated house battery, in my system according to my current needs.

I could have had a New chinese group27AGm for free, that claimed to have a 40 amp charging limit. I would basically exceed that every time I started my engine with the battery depleted. I'd have No confidence in it.

Part of my reluctance was I want to see how much more abuse the northstar battery can take before retiring it. it would seem a shame to relegate it back to engine starting duty only at this point, and use a 40 amp limited chinese AGM for the house.

My last High amp recharge of it, it took 65.5 amps for ~24 minutes before voltage hit 14.7v

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Like most people my "year or two old" battery always turns out to be five plus...

A sure sign I hate to buy batteries. When one does not live up to expectations, I do not take it gracefully.

When I departed the industry, Trojan T-105's cost $43.00 And Lifeline batteries cost darn near the same as they do today.

The shaped-like-a-six-pack-of-Falstaff Optima battery was being hyped in Costco. They turned out to be less than expected. Like the Delco "Voyager" Voyaged almost direct from the plant to the recycle center.

[Smitty77]

MW - On top of that - let's face it, the Lifeline's are one of the sexiest looking AGM's on the market:)! (Of course, I say the same thing about myself when looking in the mirror. And for sure, opinions vary on my conclusion...

Smitty