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SidecarFlip

SE Michigan

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Posted: 01/13/18 03:06pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

[email protected] wrote:

Hard to tell if it is good or bad. I don't know anything about REV. Experience tells me buyouts are not good for customers (witness what happens to independent RV manufacturers when they are bought out by Thor or Forest River). Time will tell.


Not always true. Good example is Palomino in Colon, Michigan (I live close by btw). Palomino had one foot in the grave when FR acquired them, were building campers based on 25 year old designs that leaked and had shoddy workmanship.

After Berkshire Hathaway (Warren Buffet) acquired them and provided working capital, they did a major redesign, built a more efficient and up to date facility. Now, they turn out a quality (by industry standards) unit that don't leak and everything fits well and works properly, I know, I have one and if they were still Palomino and not a FR division (of they had actually survived, which was doubtful) I would have purchased another brand. IOW, the originals were junk. Now, they aren't....and... Most of the management is still the same folks as are the production folks. I stop by from time to time and the attitude there is very upbeat.


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SidecarFlip

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Posted: 01/13/18 03:16pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Not sure where Lance stands. I know a large segment of their production employees 'associates' ate of Mexican heritage (at the California facility) and that may have a bearing on the sale, but then again, it may not, that and the overall business climate in California is no longer conducive to the perpetuation of a business like Lance.

I would not be at all surprised if REV pulls out of California entirely and relocates the company to a state more conducive to business operations. Indiana comes right to mind. So does Ohio (Nu-Camp Cirrus) is in Ohio.

Being closer to your component suppliers, Dometic, LCI, Dexter, Suburban and others located in Ohio and Indiana makes component shipping less expensive and easier to get.

I guess we will see what transpires.

Kayteg1

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Posted: 01/13/18 04:44pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

DanNJanice wrote:

Kayteg1 wrote:

I've been always strong admirer of "family tradition" business.
Big corporations have the same production rules what communism did.

Always amazes me how people manage to insert the big bad communism(socialism, etc) into every conversation. Big business has nothing to do with communism, and everything to do with good old American capitalism and greed.
I also enjoy how people seem to think little business = good and big business = bad. Since any successful little business usually becomes big over time, at what point does the business get big enough to become "bad".


You misread the sentence to start with.
What is your experience with big plant production in communism?
I did work for communistic plant with 2500 workers and I did own small business in the system.
The same in US, where I did work for companies with 250 employees and I did run small business here.
Big plants in both systems were run by the same rules - nobody is responsible for anything as multi-level supervising is diluting responsibility to almost nothing.
The same job done by "big guys" cost 5-15 times more than done by small contractor.
With small, private business there was major difference thought.
When I run into government red tape in communism, I could take box of chocolates, or flowers for the clerk and get the things going.
With bigger issues- bottle of cognac for the supervisor could go long way.
In US the "holly $(%Y" in office need 5 days to answer the phone call.
Answering your last question - as long as the owner, or co-owner works side by side with employees, you will have efficiency and responsibility.
Once the supervisor becomes "customer relations officer" and has no knowledge about the production - that is where thing go downhill.





sandblast

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Posted: 01/14/18 10:17am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I would not be at all surprised if REV pulls out of California entirely and relocates the company to a state more conducive to business operations. Indiana comes right to mind. So does Ohio (Nu-Camp Cirrus) is in Ohio.



Very possible

mi.drew

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Posted: 01/14/18 10:37am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Companies merging isn't always a bad thing, General Motors for example is a merger of many companies.


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Kayteg1

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Posted: 01/14/18 01:26pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

mi.drew wrote:

Companies merging isn't always a bad thing, General Motors for example is a merger of many companies.


And look where that got them???
Compare how bad Chrysler/Mercedes merge come out, or Dodge/Fiat.
Good cars become disasters.

SidecarFlip

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Posted: 01/14/18 01:40pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Kayteg1 wrote:

mi.drew wrote:

Companies merging isn't always a bad thing, General Motors for example is a merger of many companies.


And look where that got them???
Compare how bad Chrysler/Mercedes merge come out, or Dodge/Fiat.
Good cars become disasters.


I will agree on the Mercedes (Diamler) Chrysler merger being a bad deal but Diamler (Cebrus Capital) acquired Chrysler for their pension assets and not the automotive business.

Far as Fiat goes, Sergio has really made the company profitable again and they are turning out a commendable product as well.

Don't think GM is a good example of a positive merger of anything.

Far as Lance is concerned, I guess we will have to wait and see but I do see them moving out of California and rather quickly too.

Lantley

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Posted: 01/14/18 03:00pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

mi.drew wrote:

Companies merging isn't always a bad thing, General Motors for example is a merger of many companies.

In the RV world it generally is.
Thor and Fleetwood control 95% of the RV industry.
I've seen it happen too many times at this point.
My beloved Open Range is now part of the Thor conglomerate.
The innovation and out of the box approach that once gave OR its own identity are eroding away before my eyes.
Once upon a time OR would step up and do whatever it took to satisfy a customer. That go the extra mile service has been replaced with a quote of the official Thor warranty.
Designs are made to maximize buying power vs. being innovative.
Take a good look at the Lance you now know. In a few years you won't recognize it. It will become just another brand under the Fleetwood umbrella.


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monkey44

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Posted: 01/14/18 03:18pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Many small businesses of past years were family built, or single owner who worked hard to create a great product, and became successful because of that hard work.
And, the owners sell out after years and years of good product. The "new" owner -
usually a big corporation - just adds it to it's portfolio and the chain-line production lowers the quality to zilch.

Now, it's so difficult for a NEW small business to compete, it can't. So we get very few small business start-ups today, and will get less in the future. It has become about "small price" instead of small business. Very tragic.


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Kayteg1

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Posted: 01/14/18 03:58pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I've seen positive changes thought.
Caltrans- who build Benicia/Martinez bridge in CA with triple time and quadruple cost overrun, in last years when Bay Bridge needed repairs or rebuild - hire smaller contractors.
Private contractor build Las Vegas monorail not only for few millions less, but also few months ahead of schedule.
Somebody is putting some common sense into the corporation madness.

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