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 > Advice on deep cycle setup?

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MEXICOWANDERER

las peñas, michoacan, mexico

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Posted: 01/13/18 11:25am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

The 12-volt heater idea ain't too cool...

A friend got one for free. Using it in 45F weather was similar to striking kitchen matches to heat up the cab of his pickup truck.

pianotuna

Regina, SK, Canada

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Posted: 01/13/18 12:35pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

The other way to skin this cat would be a hefty investment in a truly large capacity LI battery bank. Say 800 amp-hour worth.


Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, 556 amp hours of AGM in two battery banks 12 volt batteries, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.

full_mosey

Oklahoma

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Posted: 01/13/18 01:21pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I suspect the inverter and wiring.

I had Safari van like you. My experience in using a single group 24 AGM went better. It was a Deka 8a24m spec'ed at 525CCA and 79AH. I got way more minutes at 700W even at age 6+ years old.

I used a Magnum inverter that produces 1000W of pure sine wave(PSW) AC. The cables between the AGM and inverter were 2/0 gauge. This inverter doesn't shut off until the AGM's Volts dip below 10V for over a minute. Most, or many, inverters shut off at 11.5V; not so much to save the battery, but due to weak electronics in the inverter. Did you know that batteries like yours are CCA rated down to 9.5V?

About your 700W instant pot, is that 700W taken from the name plate or from a separate meter? Often name plates are overstated. I know my 1000W inverter won't run my 1080 coffee maker more than 5 minutes and that is exactly in line with the specs in the manual. Yes, I do have a meter that reads Watts.

Can you provide more info like model # of your inverter?

HTH;
John

centerline

Salem OR

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Posted: 01/13/18 02:04pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

wa8yxm wrote:



NOTE that the faster you draw them down, the faster squared they run down (not an exact ratio) but the capacities I gave are the C/20 rate (that is a 100 amphour battery can provide 5 amps for 20 hours before it hits zero).

If you draw current faster.. Well logically at 10 amps that 100 amp hour battery should last 10 hours. but .. in reality, due to an effect I can never rememeber the name of |(Purket?)_ it may only last 5 or six.


correct...
think puke-rt, but its spelled peukert.. the "peukert effect" works both ways.
its much more complicated than this, but in short it explains how using too small of storage capacity in relation to the load, and it will run the bank down quicker than theory would predict from the known numbers...
and yet, with an extra large bank and you will realize much more actual capacity than theory would predict, given the listed numbers.... your gains are exponential when drawing the same load from a larger bank.
this is where multiple "deep" cycle batteries can really show their full value over multi purpose batteries...


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MEXICOWANDERER

las peñas, michoacan, mexico

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Posted: 01/13/18 03:25pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

For some reason reading about Peukert reminds me of an aged British comedy series by the name of "Keeping Up Appearances"

Hyacinth would answer the telephone...

"Hello, the Boo-Kay residence"

Last named spelled "Bucket"

"Poo-Kay?"

theoldwizard1

SE MI

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Posted: 01/13/18 08:18pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

JohnnyGood wrote:

Would getting a 1000 watt inverter (pure sine wave), a heavy duty alternator, and another deep cycle battery make this viable to do while running the vehicle?

Most of what I am going to say probably has already been covered but I will try to put it in simple format.

  • You really want TURE deep cycle batteries. The best bang for the buck are two lead acid 6v golf cart wired in series.
  • Because space is such a premium in a conversion van, finding a place to mount them is an issue. Although they cost A LOT MORE, consider lithium-iron (LiFe) batteries. Much higher energy density (stores more for the given space)
  • If you really want to run 120VAC appliances, you need a GOOD pure sine wave inverter. 1000W would be a minimum. If you want to "do it right the first time" get an inverter-charger like one of these Samlex Inverter/Charger. Skip the converter and just install a DC breaker/distribution panel connected direct to the batery bank because this style device handles shore power, generator and solar inputs and has a built in transfer switch.
  • A generator, even a small portable one, is a must if you want to boondock for more than 1 night without good solar.
  • Charging from an engine alternator is not a great solution.


The last statement is somewhat controversial but I am NOT going to go into much detail because it has been covered probably a dozen times in the past year. If you want to charge a true deep cycle battery bank, you need a true deep cycle battery charger, PERIOD ! Of course if you choose LiFe batteries you need a special charger.

The simplest way to recharge a deep cycle battery bank from a 12V engine alternator is to A) connect the output of the alternator to a DC-DC boost converter set to 16-18V output, B) connect that to an appropriate solar charge controller C) connect that to you battery bank.

MrWizard

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Posted: 01/13/18 09:31pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Quote:

Because space is such a premium in a conversion van, finding a place to mount them is an issue. Although they cost A LOT MORE, consider lithium-iron (LiFe) batteries. Much higher energy density (stores more for the given space)


not exactly,
its not density per space, but useable AmpHrs per 100 Amphrs of battery

put depending on the particular Lithium chemistry Li-Ion verus LifePo
the battery weighs 1/2 to 1/3 the same size Lead Acid 100 Ahr battery
it still takes up the same amount of space

but you do gain in useable ampHrs
instead of getting only 50% useable and recharge
with Li you get 80% useable and recharge
approx 40% more use per battery space used

so yes you can more use, of the amphrs stored in that available space

if 64# of lead gets 100 AmpHrs of which 50 can be safely repeatedly used (with proper recharging to full)

and 80# of Li will get you almost 200 Amphrs of which you can use 160 amphrs
but it will take up double the space of the lead battery, but give you 3x the useable number of ampHrs

it gets confusing when people swap the terms space and weight

i prefer to use space, because we only have so much space we can use for batteries, then explain that we can use more ampHrs from the Li that is in that space, ( it really doesn't contain more total ampHrs per 'packaged' space ) but you can use more of what is there without harming the Li Battery, aka effective daily cycled use is more,
but not total capacity by volume, if you had to use all the power from either one in an emergency, you would end up with the same amount of power, 12v*100amphrs is 1200 wattHrs period no matter what the chemistry
although some Li versions can deliver tremendous amounts of power without suffering peukert effect that lead acid does

sorry i did not mean to get long winded

NO, i don't have lithium, i have Lead AGM batteries, big heavy ones

* This post was last edited 01/14/18 09:45am by MrWizard *   View edit history


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Harvey51

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Posted: 01/13/18 11:00pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Maybe there is a way to heat up the food plus a high heat capacity substance (water) before starting for home and insulating it so well it stays hot for the half hour. I don't think it would be all that difficult - my insulated coffee cup stays pretty hot for half an hour.

Another thought - set up the pressure cooker at home and ask Google Home to turn it on when you start driving home.

Or get married.


2004 E350 Adventurer (Canadian) 20 footer - Alberta, Canada
No TV + 100W solar = no generator needed

Almot

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Posted: 01/14/18 12:06am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Harvey51 wrote:

Maybe there is a way to heat up the food plus a high heat capacity substance (water) before starting for home and insulating it so well it stays hot for the half hour. I don't think it would be all that difficult - my insulated coffee cup stays pretty hot for half an hour.

Not difficult at all. It's called a food thermos or "thermos food jar". Like your coffee mug only with wide opening. 15 bucks in Walmart.

FrankShore

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Posted: 01/14/18 02:22am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Best bet on a battery would be Lifeline Batteries. They manufacture deep cycle AGM batteries in West Covina, CA, Azusa, CA areas and also back east somewhere) Lifeline has the best warranty. They have a 5 year warranty, and the proration that starts at 12 months. No one has a better warranty for their batteries than LifeLine

For practical purposes, I would have 2 12v batteries. With 6v, if one goes out you're S.O.L.

They're bullet proof

Lifeline Batteries


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