What does this mean to you?

[love2rvcamp]

We have been researching trailers to replace our current one. We went back and forth from a 5th wheel to travel trailer but decided to stay with a travel trailer now. We have researched numerous brands and plan to attend RV shows and start putting eyes to trailer. Now my question.....

When you see a trailer advertising "Arctic Package, 4 season, Winter Package, etc. what thought comes to mind?

I have joined several Facebook pages of the brands we have been looking at to see what issues/questions owners are reporting. I see posts from we are camping in 5 degree weather and nice and toasty and all is well to, Cries for help that their trailer is all froze up. One post even said that the brands need to quit touting these packages as these are not mobile homes they are trailers and people should have certain expectations.

In our current trailer we have an enclosed underbelly with tank heaters. In recent cold weather we filled the fresh water tank, unhooked from campsite water, turned on tank heaters, covered our low point drains and of course furnace was on. For the most part we were fine then only issue was our water line to the kitchen sink froze, low points froze and the tank pulls froze. The day we were leaving I was out with a hair dryer unfreezing things.

What say you all? ................

[bobndot]

My tent is 4 season in Miami .

[wrvond]

The terms are really meaningless to me because they appear to be meaningless to the manufacturers. Basically I am looking for a camper that I can easily modify to withstand the cold or heat and that has plenty of insulation in those areas that I cannot easily modify.
I try to avoid using propane to do anything more than cook or run the refrigerator, so need electric heat for the tanks. I'm thinking of using heating tape and foam insulation on the PEX water lines inside the camper, as well.

It's tough to decide, because I don't want to be tied to a power pole when we go camping. We like state parks and military bases best, but want to have the option to cut the cord if we should choose.

[Chuck_thehammer]

how thick are the slide-out walls and roof... ??

that is the coldest part to keep warm..


a fair 4 season unit would NOT have slide-outs...have thicker walls .. double pane windows.

[handye9]

troubledwaters wrote:
It makes no difference what it means to me or anyone else on here. What matters is what does it mean to the manufacturer building it - that's who you need to ask the question of.

Ditto !!!

Heated tanks for example:

Some manufacturers enclose the underbelly and say the heat radiating through the floor provides tank heat.

Some enclose underbelly and run heat duct through the area of the tanks. Now they have the heat duct and radiant heat doing the tank heat.

Some do all of the above plus, open a duct to blow warm air around the tanks and wrap tanks with insulation.

Some do all of the above plus, install electric heat pads on the tanks, drain lines, and dump valves.

All of them will tell you they have heated tanks, but, only the last one has some tank protection while the furnace is not running.

Same idea goes along with marketing terms like Arctic Package, Polar Package, Four Season Package, etc. The terms don't mean anything, unless you know exactly what is included in the package, and many dealers are unable to answer those questions.

[troubledwaters]

It makes no difference what it means to me or anyone else on here. What matters is what does it mean to the manufacturer building it - that's who you need to ask the question of.

[colliehauler]

myredracer wrote:

rbpru wrote:
Years back there was and interesting article about a fellow in Alaska that spent the winter in a small 14 or 16 foot egg shaped TT.

That was maybe the article in Trailer Life about a guy that wintered in an R-pod up in the Yukon? Fascinating story! Not exactly a good choice of TT for brutally cold weather. I'm sure he was able to snag the best site in the CG, lol... Link to story here.

Would not be bad if you could park it in a heated garage. I'm not that adventurous.

[myredracer]

rbpru wrote:
Years back there was and interesting article about a fellow in Alaska that spent the winter in a small 14 or 16 foot egg shaped TT.

That was maybe the article in Trailer Life about a guy that wintered in an R-pod up in the Yukon? Fascinating story! Not exactly a good choice of TT for brutally cold weather. I'm sure he was able to snag the best site in the CG, lol... Link to story here.

[3oaks]

rbpru wrote:
"Four Season" or other vernacular has no defined meaning. It does mean the company does something to the TT to improve its weather tolerance as compared to their other units.

The only way to know the specifics is to study each companies four season "improvements".

In my opinion TTs and really not made for sustained cold, simply for the reasons you mentioned, too many exposed ends plus the fact that with even the best insulation, you only have a very narrow wall thickness.

Years back there was and interesting article about a fellow in Alaska that spent the winter in a small 14 or 16 foot egg shaped TT. He shirted the trailer with insulation and as the snow fell he shovel it up against the sides of the TT. In a month or so it looked line half TT and half igloo. he used an enormous amount of LP but he did show that if you were diligent enough it could be done.

When we cold camp, we dry camp. It is usually for a few days with a heated wash house. I can tell you that Pit toilets can get pretty chilly. 🙂 🙂

I believe you nailed it! Particularly with your fist sentence. 😉

I can also understand how that Alaskan adventure and how you handle your own "cold camping" are quite duable as well. :B

[myredracer]

If you want a yardstick to compare to, take a look at OutdoorsRV units. They have TTs specifically designed for 4 seasons, have rugged "off-road certified" frames that they build in-house, and they are one of the few remaining independent manufactures. A brochure can be found here. Walls are 2" thick, thermal pane windows, triple-layered roof insulation, heated tanks and more... Also many other great features not found in other brands.

Manufacturers make all sorts of claims about their units' year-round capabilities. Have heard dealers outright lie to people at RV shows (so shocking!). Heated underbellies are common nowadays but are very inefficient because heated air ends up going directly outside. Floors are often full of large holes/gaps that allow cold to be drawn back inside. Insulation in most TTs isn't very good, esp. in ceilings where it really matters. Better insulation is good not only in winter but in the heat of summer. Many AC units struggle to keep the interior cool enough in summer. If using a TT in the winter, removing moisture-laden air is extremely important. If not using a dehumidifier, need to crack open vents & windows (or use ceiling fan) so furnace needs to be able to heat the incoming makeup air and some struggle to do that.

[rbpru]

"Four Season" or other vernacular has no defined meaning. It does mean the company does something to the TT to improve its weather tolerance as compared to their other units.

The only way to know the specifics is to study each companies four season "improvements".

In my opinion TTs and really not made for sustained cold, simply for the reasons you mentioned, too many exposed ends plus the fact that with even the best insulation, you only have a very narrow wall thickness.

Years back there was and interesting article about a fellow in Alaska that spent the winter in a small 14 or 16 foot egg shaped TT. He shirted the trailer with insulation and as the snow fell he shovel it up against the sides of the TT. In a month or so it looked line half TT and half igloo. he used an enormous amount of LP but he did show that if you were diligent enough it could be done.

When we cold camp, we dry camp. It is usually for a few days with a heated wash house. I can tell you that Pit toilets can get pretty chilly. 🙂 🙂

[DutchmenSport]

I asked the same question about my Outback that has a label right on the side of the camper, "Polar Package." What exactly does that mean? Well, after 4 winters, all it means is, the underbelly is enclosed and the head ducts are not insulated under the floor, thus allowing radiant heat under the floor to prevent pipes from freezing.

Um... I've never trusted it. I winterize with the "pink stuff" all my waterlines and if using the camper in consistent below 32 degrees (F) weather, we dry camp, use a port-a-potty, and never let any water go down the drains or toilet. My tanks are NOT heated. Also, there is a considerable heat loss under the floor which is really noticeable in cold weather. Considering I winterize with the "pink stuff", I unhook one furnace vent from the furnace and let blow directly into the the main living area. It's unbelievable how much difference in heat fills the living area this way opposed to keeping the duct hooked up under the floor and to the vents. (Of course, the floor is a bit colder, but it's got carpet, so no biggie.

"Winter package", "Polar package" can mean just about anything. And like you said above, you can still get frozen pipes under the cabinets and such.

Remember.... the more space that you want heated, the more propane you'll use. In zero degree weather, a 30 pound propane tank will last me 2 days, even bypassing the floor duct and supplimenting with electric space heaters.

Electric space heaters will not heat UNDER the trailer either. Only your on-board furnace will, unless you completely skirt your camper and install a separate furnace under there.

In marginal weather, (below 32 one day, above the next, and so on, the "Polar package" does OK, but only if day time temps get above 32 for a while. Once everything stays below 32, day and night, I don't take chances, I winterize.

[MFL]

My FW is a 4-season unit, and is actually insulated quite well. It is by far the most quiet of 4 owned, and heats/cools easily. It does have it's weak areas, such as low point drains, fresh water tank drain exposed, and outside shower, that is not in heated basement. I've also used foam pipe wrap on the low pts, and fresh tank drain hose, when night time temps dropped to around 20F. Where I live, Winter temps often hit -20F, and can get -30 or lower. I think mine is a 3-season in my area. I do like that mine has heat vent routing running through kitchen cupboards, near basement plumbing, and even along side of water pump. Of course there is also the added vent from furnace to warm entire tank area.

A true 4-season??? NO, but by design, an obvious attempt was made to get as close as possible.

Jerry

[Jayco-noslide]

I think one has to be skeptical of such claims. I doubt there are any laws about having to meet any criteria. If legitimate, to me it would mean well insulated walls, thermal payne windows, strong furnace, heated tanks, etc. probably the weight will be a little heavier. But if it's like "ultra lite" doesn't really mean much.

[George3037]

It seems your current TT already has some sort of arctic package from your description. This site offers a decent description of an arctic package. Even owning one of these cold weather TT's is NO guarantee you won't have freeze ups. I live in a cold area and winterize and store my camper for 5-6 months. Even being further south than I you've seen what cold weather can do to your TT.
If your considering a new TT I'd get the best winter package available but you may still have an occasional freeze up like you encountered. Fortunately in your location you can get more months of use than I. This year has been a cold winter for much of the east coast.


https://kirklandrvsales.com/rv-arctic-packages-outlast-cold/