Need Purchasing Options!

[bagman]

Right now FORD dominated the Gas Class A chassis business and I personally feel that competition is good for the RV consumer. Perhaps a company like Freightliner or Spartan could come with with a chassis that would give FORD a run for their business! Nothing like good competition! Our former Class A Tiffin Allegro Bay was on the Workhorse W-22 chassis (Gas) and it handled and ran well with the Chevy 8.1 V-8 mated to the Allison 1000 5 speed transmission. Just imagine if Thor had 100% of the travel trailer & 5th. wheel business, do you think they (Thor) would really try to build a better trailer and would discount their prices. I think not! My wife and I are currently RVless, but we plan on changing that situation within two years and it would be nice to know that when we do decide to buy a new RV, that there will be plenty of options with respect to the chassis Mfgr! Do you feel the same way? Or are you pleased that FORD is your only option with a class A (Gas)?

[Tom_Barb]

bagman wrote:
FCCC used the National RV Trade Show last week to debut DriveForce – a 6-liter gas engine offering 308 horsepower with 367 pounds per feet of torque.

That has to be pitiful on a mountain grade.

[dougrainer]

National RV Trade show was the first week of December????? Last week? I will believe it when it happens and they get orders from the various manufacturers. There have been press releases like this over the years from various companies attempting to get the chassis market. Ford will not roll over and let them take the smaller market share. Doug

Also, Freightliner has a HORRIBLE reputation for working on Motorhomes. Adding a Gas market will just make the problem even worse.

[bagman]

FCCC used the National RV Trade Show last week to debut DriveForce – a 6-liter gas engine offering 308 horsepower with 367 pounds per feet of torque. The engine will offer end users increased fuel efficiency of up to 15 percent compared with the current gasoline chassis available on the market, according to Bryan Henke, FCCC manager of product marketing.

Freightliner will pair the DriveForce with the company’s MC chassis, offering a new, luxury chassis option in the 16,000- to 19,000-pound gross vehicle weight range, according to Gordie Taylor, RV product manager for FCCC.

The DriveForce engine is expected to become available to RV manufacturers, dealers and customers sometime in early 2019. The first DriveForce engine will be powered by a gas engine, but future engines could utilize other power trains, according to FCCC officials. So Doug, what is your response to this official report?

[dougrainer]

bagman wrote:
If any company could, it would be Freightliner! They have all there resources to compete with FORD! Competition is good for consumers and a monopoly is not! If the only pick up truck that was available was the FORD, do you really think FORD would have an incentive to build better pick up trucks! The answer is a resounding "NO!"

I forgot. Either late 80's or early 90's John Deere had a rear pusher Gas engine chassis that failed to make a splash. There is no Ford monopoly in how you apply it. The other competitors went away. So, Ford has the business. I don't see any real failures of the Ford chassis. It does the job and there is NOT a whole lot you can do to improve a basic chassis/Powertrain. Freightliner is not going to spend hundreds of millions of dollars to develop and engineer a Gas chassis for a dwindling market. Doug

[bagman]

If any company could, it would be Freightliner! They have all there resources to compete with FORD! Competition is good for consumers and a monopoly is not! If the only pick up truck that was available was the FORD, do you really think FORD would have an incentive to build better pick up trucks! The answer is a resounding "NO!"

[dougrainer]

There were really just 2 Class A Chassis makers 40 years ago. Chevy/GMC and DODGE. Dodge dropped out in 1979 NOT because it was not profitable, but if anybody was around back then the, COMPLETE Dodge/Chrysler company was BANKRUPT. They could not afford to continue the Class A chassis which they had 3 models. So, GM became the Chassis supplier, which was good news to GM. Then Ford and Izuzu(Diesel engine on a Chevy chassis) slowly started to enter the Class A market. Izuzu/GM only for about 1 year. Then Ford and GM went head to head. GM ALWAYS had a better steering system than the Ford I Beam. Once you got the FORD aligned correctly( for some reason shops had a hard time doing this), it would handle as well as Chevy. Ford then came out with a better heavier duty Class A chassis and GM sold to Workhorse and went out of the business. Workhorse could not maintain the market and went under in the RV chassis market and that left Ford for the remaining Gas market. Due to the LARGE number of RV'ers that want a Diesel, the Gas Motorhomes are not that many. People forget that up until about 1998 and up, the only real motorhome power was a Gasoline engine. VERY few Diesels due to cost. So, the Gas Class A motorhome market is a lot smaller and Ford has filled that market size. That means nobody wants to spend hundreds of millions to design a Class A gas chassis for the existing market and try to beat out Ford. Doug

[tropical36]

bagman wrote:
Right now FORD dominated the Gas Class A chassis business and I personally feel that competition is good for the RV consumer. Perhaps a company like Freightliner or Spartan could come with with a chassis that would give FORD a run for their business! Nothing like good competition! Our former Class A Tiffin Allegro Bay was on the Workhorse W-22 chassis (Gas) and it handled and ran well with the Chevy 8.1 V-8 mated to the Allison 1000 5 speed transmission. Just imagine if Thor had 100% of the travel trailer & 5th. wheel business, do you think they (Thor) would really try to build a better trailer and would discount their prices. I think not! My wife and I are currently RVless, but we plan on changing that situation within two years and it would be nice to know that when we do decide to buy a new RV, that there will be plenty of options with respect to the chassis Mfgr! Do you feel the same way? Or are you pleased that FORD is your only option with a class A (Gas)?

Doubtful if that's gonna happen and if anyone out there, was to provide some real competition, it would have to be in the form of a rear engine chassis, like the old WH UFO. I keep wondering if Ford has considered this as well. I have heard rumors of WH getting back in, but then they don't really have an engine for it and would have to go outside for that, of which has been rumored also with a 8.8 big block from PSI. However, a lot of time has passed since then, so........
One must remember that both Chrysler and GM were in the MH chassis business at one time and evidently didn't find it profitable enough for staying. A lot like the Diesel engine manufactures and with Cummins now controlling most of the market.

[jplante4]

This is new. Not quite the Workhorse. 16-19k chassis would put it in the smaller class A rigs.

[ggardne2]

The Ford motorhome chassis is still built in Detroit on Lynch Road (Google Detroit Chassis Plant for more background. The stripped Chassis work was moved from Mexico to Detroit Chassis in 1999.

[old_guy]

I might buy a truck with gas but not a class A motorhome. I would get a DP and never look back

[fpresto]

Ford is in the market only because the F-53 is used in a lot of other applications so it costs them little to make a RV chassis which is almost identical. RVs are just one and probably not the biggest use. We all tend to overestimate the buying power of motorized RVs when in fact it is a very minor part of Fords business model.

[bagman]

I remember when FORD was building their F-53 Class A chassis in Detroit, because my company used to do business with them. Perhaps FORD will bring that piece of business back to Michigan like FCA/RAM trucks coming back to Michigan from Mexico! Wouldn't you feel better having your MH chassis built here vs there? If a company like Freightliner or Spartan began building class A (Gas)
chassis, I would buy a class A Gas from the RV manufacturer who used that chassis. One time about (10) years ago I watched a TV program 20/20 I think and the CEO of Starbucks was saying how he bought ceramic coffee mugs from a pottery in East Liverpool, Ohio, very close to where I grew up. So I must have visited (6) local Starbucks to buy one of those mugs, but every single mug on the shelf was made in China! Bags.

[Tom_Barb]

gbopp wrote:
Apparently FORD did have a better idea.

Ford's idea was, hang on the market isn't big enough for every body, then we won't have to get better.

[Tom_Barb]

Best combination ? Cummins driving a Allison in a Spartan chassis.