AGM Batteries Do Not "Dry Out" Unless Physically Damaged

[MEXICOWANDERER]

• AGM batteries do not dry out unless violently mistreated
• The batteries are sealed
• Special battery caps recombine oxygen and hydrogen and precipitate it back onto the glass mat
• Special relief valves built into the cap maintain pressure within the battery until a threshold is reached
• The caps then pop open, release pressure then automatically reseal: In practice it takes upwards of high 16's into the 17's of voltage to build up enough pressure to cause venting
• Prolonged excessive charging causes positive plates to shed
• It is because electrolyte in an AGM is extra potent 1.300 that the battery is sensitive to excessively high voltage.

[Smitty77]

pianotuna wrote:
Hi Smitty77,

I would love to know what this "machine" is.

Smitty77 wrote:


-They would send me a machine to do the Deep Recovery process if I wanted
Smitty

Picked up the replacement L16's today. And found they had about 4 or 5 of these units in their warehouse. Advanced Power Products BC-8000

http://advancedpowerproducts.com/products/battery-testers/bc-8000/

They said it would be probably next week before they'd have any info for me on their opinion on my batteries:)!.

Determined on Sunday when I removed the old batteries, that I'm going to go ahead and replace the interconnects. So one more project before I install them:)!

Best to all,
Smitty

[Smitty77]

pnichols and MW - Thanks for the follow on info on charging options...

I'm going to go slow on this, and can reserve the right to spend my gains from family members towards RV Stuff purchases to wherever I want:)!

I'm also going to dive deeper on the capabilities of the Magnum MS2812. I have seen it in Bulk charge of an accidentally depleted bank (The one time it went below 50% SOC.) Pumping in 14.4V with BMK Meter indicated 133 Amps. Rated for 125 Amps duty. It did taper down pretty below 125 Amps within 5 minutes, but was a goo hour above 100 Amps on Bulk. So maybe their is some other customize settings I don't know about, where I can specify not only the Volts (Bulk/Absorb/Float) but perhaps the Amps too(?).

And if not the Magnum, I did just dig out my MidNite Classic 150 manual from the archives. Will dive deeper into it's customization capabilities too...

Good learning experience for me and will gain more background knowledge for other devices that I add in the future.

I'm going to start another thread about 'Care & Feeding of Larger Banks of Batteries'.

Best to you both, and all,
Smitty

[pnichols]

This power supply appears to be very close to an ideal one for charging RV battery banks at any current up to 60 amps - with the maximum amperage adjustable so small portable generators can intentionally be kept from being overloaded, or so portable inverter generators can intentionally be kept in their quiet idle mode.

Of course as usual, you have pay the price for good stuff like this: https://www.circuitspecialists.com/csi1560sw.html

[MEXICOWANDERER]

LOOK! HERE COMES ONE NOW!





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They preset voltage and amperage and use sticky tape to freeze the dials.

10-amps is plenty for an L16 or pair of L16's

And THAT'S NOT ALL


With the RONCO miracle kitchen tool you can set voltage for INDIVIDUAL 3 cell batteries (6-volts).

(Yes, I'm having fun with this but the information above is no joke.)

And TEN AMPS IS THE BITTER AMPERAGE CAPACITY LIMIT.

[Smitty77]

pianotuna wrote:
Hi Smitty77,

I would love to know what this "machine" is.

Smitty77 wrote:


-They would send me a machine to do the Deep Recovery process if I wanted
Smitty

I'll be talking with him later this week, and will ask him.

I did ask what size it was, because I wanted to see if would fit inside my battery bay on top of the 8D. About 10 x 12 x 8" in size:)!

Best,
Smitty

[MEXICOWANDERER]

You could connect This to a Lifeline...



And as long as DC voltage does not exceed 14.4 volts the Lifeline would love it...

[brulaz]

pnichols wrote:
What I would like is a power supply to permanently wire into the RV's 12V circuit (in parallel with the stock Parallax 7345 converter) that was similar to the MEAN WELL RSP-1500-12 that not only had adjustable DC output voltage, but an adjustable DC output current limit as well.

Like MEX suggests, I'd just set it to 14.4 volts all the time - assuming that this wouldn't be too much voltage for the 12V items in our RV 24/7 - but set it's current limiter to around 35 amps. This way I could be forcing 35 amps into the AGM batteries drycamping whenever they would still accept up to 35 amps at 14.4 volts during recharging.

This would permit to make maximum use of my 650 watt Honda EX650 for battery charging when drycamping, but also have more than 35 12V DC amps available when using the Onan generator or when on hookups due to the MEAN WELL being in parallel with the 45 converter.

35A at 14.4V is 504W, so one of the Meanwell RSP-500 series might get you close to that. The RSP-500-15 has a rated power of 501W and rated current of 33.4A. As long as the batteries will accept it, it should limit the current to something close that value.

The only issue is that the Meanwell can exceed its rated power. I've seen mine go to over 600W according to the inverter feeding it. Didn't check the current though ...

[pianotuna]

Hi Smitty77,

I would love to know what this "machine" is.

Smitty77 wrote:


-They would send me a machine to do the Deep Recovery process if I wanted
Smitty

[MEXICOWANDERER]

The Tech Support gent also said he would play with my bank, and by somethings do in sort of a post mortem way, would be able to give me some indication of what I did to the bank. And that would then allow me to change my maintenance practices with more information.

THAT! is the mark of a first class battery company.

Like ROLLS, Lifeline revels in massaging and testing their products. They are ANYTHING but reluctant about flaunting their plate specifications.

And for Pnichols, a DPDT 30-amp relay can switch 120vac between power supplies. Use the NC for your normal charging and the NO for a Meanwell.

I have to do additional qualifying but my remarks about the 1500's output may be too conservative. The 1500 requires special HIROSE connectors to extend a cable for remote voltage adjustment. Not needed with fixed voltage.

The charger I am preparing, has an 11 position gold contact single deck switch for connection via a resistor network to the HIROSE connectors. Dedicated voltage setpoints.

10 amp delay start to allow pre-selected voltages to be seen and the units capacitors to charge before switching to load. A screamer to announce reversed cable to battery connection error. A EBP Pabst dual ball bearing fan -- 100,000 hour service life.

[pnichols]

What I would like is a power supply to permanently wire into the RV's 12V circuit (in parallel with the stock Parallax 7345 converter) that was similar to the MEAN WELL RSP-1500-12 that not only had adjustable DC output voltage, but an adjustable DC output current limit as well.

Like MEX suggests, I'd just set it to 14.4 volts all the time - assuming that this wouldn't be too much voltage for the 12V items in our RV 24/7 - but set it's current limiter to around 35 amps. This way I could be forcing 35 amps into the AGM batteries drycamping whenever they would still accept up to 35 amps at 14.4 volts during recharging.

This would permit to make maximum use of my 650 watt Honda EX650 for battery charging when drycamping, but also have more than 35 12V DC amps available when using the Onan generator or when on hookups due to the MEAN WELL being in parallel with the 45 converter.

[Smitty77]

Well the short of it, the voltage test over 2, 4 and 24 hours on a fully charged and totally unhooked set of battery - resulted in the validation of only one thing.

None of the battery cells are shorted or bad.

Ending voltage at 24 hours, very minor reduction from the 2 hour mark, are:

6.48 / 6.46 / 6.49 /6.45 - All considered fully charged via Lifeline data info.

Talking with Lifeline Tech Support about 3 1/2 hours ago, we discussed:

-Bank, or some of the batteries, could still be heavily sulfated

-They would send me a machine to do the Deep Recovery process if I wanted

-No way to tell if it would help. And if it did, how much longer I could get out of the bank

-Even though outside of warranty period, they offered me assistance on a new bank

=====

So I reflected on the variables of chancing the recovery and then hopefully going on with this bank longer. But if 7, 9 whatever months down the road they went belly up - good chance it would be too far out of the warranty period to get as much assistance on replacement.

I also looked at the out of pocket expense to go to Lithium. Plus mod's to the coach to do so, and with what the DW and I have on our years expenditures ahead on a retirees budget. And I'm pretty sure I'm going to say thank you Lifeline, and go up next week and give them my batteries, and get the new ones with assistance. Sure is the KISS approach, and gets it done.

The Tech Support gent also said he would play with my bank, and by somethings do in sort of a post mortem way, would be able to give me some indication of what I did to the bank. And that would then allow me to change my maintenance practices with more information.

By the way, I mentioned the input from some of you on this board, and also form some private emails and PM's... And he said he was complementary and would not argue with the input. So that I felt was a confirmation of the assistance that has been provided.

I will weight these existing batteries when pulling them out.

A postive on waiting longer on the lithium, is I'll learn more before then. And tech changes and costs drop while I'm doing so. My friend is also more then willing to take a well cared for (He stressed that:)!) few year old bank of L16's from me - of course at a bargain. So, this does not mean I have to with until the new bank needs replacement.

Think this is the right move for me...

Best, and thanks again to all,
Smitty

[Smitty77]

MW



Meanwell is on my Equipment to Buy list:)! Birthdays, Xmas, or when the DW catches me doing something worthy of more then a pat on the back (Happens every few decades...) - I get funds added to my RV Stuff To Buy envelope:)!

Best,
Smitty

[Smitty77]

MrWizard wrote:
12v*25amps =300w
(3) 100w incandescent light bulbs plugged into the inverter

there is your drawn down test

Thanks:)! And I actually knew that equaled 300W/25A. But what I did not know is if the 8-12A parasitic drain, as well as Inverter inefficiencies played into this as well?

300W/25A + 8-12 parasitic drain + inverter inefficiencies could be 32-42 Amp draw?

When doing these more specific yearly capacity audits, I interpreted the Lifeline Tech Manual on doing this capacity audit to be rather 'specific'. Thus my comment about figuring out new gear to be able to get a fine 25A draw down. Maybe I'm over thinking this - not the first time:)!

Appreciate making sure I knew the light bulb/watt to amp math,
Smitty

[MEXICOWANDERER]

The

Press A Button

And Gripe

Crowd

Wants miracles. They would never make it as fishermen. "Everyone uses snobble crabble as bait. No action. Lake is dead". These people are brain-dead.

To charge a Lifeline AGM battery, charge at a fixed 14.4 volts and high amperage until amperage drops to a half percent value. Anything else is fraudulent bogus information. P-E-R-I-O-D,