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jplante4

Cape Cod

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Posted: 06/26/18 06:00am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Dutch_12078 wrote:

Surprisingly, the difference in elevation between the I-95/I-26 split in SC and our upstate NY cottage is exactly the same no matter which route we take! The ups and downs must even out either way somewhere along the way to end up at the same elevation... [emoticon]


Well of course. If you start at sea level and end up at sea level, you didn't climb at all [emoticon]

What I meant was the amount of time you spend going uphill at 35 mph is greater than the amount of time you spend coasting downhill at 55-65 mph. This is a classic problem I give to my flying students to get them to think about how a headwind effects a flight.


Jerry & Jeanne
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JaxDad

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Posted: 06/26/18 06:54am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

jplante4 wrote:

Dutch_12078 wrote:

Surprisingly, the difference in elevation between the I-95/I-26 split in SC and our upstate NY cottage is exactly the same no matter which route we take! The ups and downs must even out either way somewhere along the way to end up at the same elevation... [emoticon]


Well of course. If you start at sea level and end up at sea level, you didn't climb at all [emoticon]

What I meant was the amount of time you spend going uphill at 35 mph is greater than the amount of time you spend coasting downhill at 55-65 mph. This is a classic problem I give to my flying students to get them to think about how a headwind effects a flight.


But you missed the return flight part of the discussion, the downwind leg of the flight.

Let’s say I fly 250 miles into a 25 mph headwind, my usual ground speed is 160 mph at which I burn 10.9 gph. My effective speed is now only 135 mph and instead of taking 1.5 hours it takes 1.85 hours and so I burn 20.165 gallons instead of just 16.35 gallons, an extra 3.185 gallons and it takes an extra 20 minutes.

On the return trip though I’m going 185 mph speed over ground because I have a tailwind. So now it only takes 1.35 hours instead of 1.5, so I only burn 14.73 gallons instead of 16.35 gallons, a savings of 1.62 gallons and 9 minutes.

So in the end I really only burned an extra 2.195 gallons on the whole trip. Just like the fuel savings gained by the increased fuel economy going downhill.

Nobody said was a ‘wash’ but it must be taken into account.

DrewE

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Posted: 06/26/18 07:48am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

jplante4 wrote:

Dutch_12078 wrote:

Surprisingly, the difference in elevation between the I-95/I-26 split in SC and our upstate NY cottage is exactly the same no matter which route we take! The ups and downs must even out either way somewhere along the way to end up at the same elevation... [emoticon]


Well of course. If you start at sea level and end up at sea level, you didn't climb at all [emoticon]

What I meant was the amount of time you spend going uphill at 35 mph is greater than the amount of time you spend coasting downhill at 55-65 mph. This is a classic problem I give to my flying students to get them to think about how a headwind effects a flight.


You're also burning considerably less gas to fight air resistance climbing the hill at 35 mph than you would burn to fight air resistance on the flat at 60 mph. (Not less gas total, but less that is consumed by air resistance). Motorhomes are not aerodynamic, so this is not a consideration that can be neglected if you want to predict at all accurate numbers.

Then one would also have to compare gas prices along the I-81 corridor vs. I-95, and....

In the end, if the cost of travel were the primary consideration, it's pretty hard to beat JetBlue or some of the other airlines. (I just checked--$145 from Albany to Orlando or vice-versa on some days in July).





AlwaysDreaming

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Posted: 06/26/18 08:02am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

JaxDad wrote:

jplante4 wrote:

JaxDad wrote:

Don't forget also, for every hill you have to climb, there's a downhill you get to coast too. It's only the difference in fuel to climb minus the fuel saved coasting down that hill that you have to account for.


You spend more time pulling uphill than you spend coasting downhill, so it's not a wash.


Which is exactly why I DIDN’T say it was.

If you go (for ease of discussing) 5 miles of uphills at 5 mpg (1 gallon burned), and 5 miles of downhills at 15 mpg (0.33 gallon burned), you have burned 1.33 gallons to go 10 miles.

You have then averaged ~7.5 mpg over those 10 miles.


Ahhh, I am starting to catch on. My original post numbers are pretty much meaningless. My gut says there is still "some" savings going the "flatter" route, but, if you take tolls into consideration, it probably is within $50 of a wash which means take the easiest route.

I also now see why big rigs go 40 MPH uphill and 80 MPH downhill. Stay out of the left lane on the down hills because they get pissed if they have to brake for your dumb ass.

Do any of you seasoned drivers put your rig in neutral and coast the down hills at 80 MPH and then put it back in gear at 60 MPH?

What is your interstate cruising speed? I would imagine there is significant MPG increase at 60 MPH as opposed to 70 MPH?

Also, "overnight" at Cracker Barrel seems to be a great option for 8 hours rest (7pm - 2am). I have not read of anyone being turned away. They are all over the eastern seaboard interstates. Walmart's on I-81 (all rural areas) have positive reviews. Walmart on I-95 Walterboro got good reads. Any plums you know of (or bad apples)?

Many Thanks for your help and opinions!

DrewE

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Posted: 06/26/18 08:57am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

AlwaysDreaming wrote:


Do any of you seasoned drivers put your rig in neutral and coast the down hills at 80 MPH and then put it back in gear at 60 MPH?


Never; please don't even think of doing that. You want engine braking going down hills lest you get going too fast and lose control, or overheat your service brakes and then have no good way of stopping. No big rig would coast down a hill in neutral (well, certainly not more than once if they survived.) The general rule is to use whatever gear allows you to maintain a safe speed with minimal use of the brakes, applying them in little bits to adjust the speed. Often that turns out to be the same gear as you needed to use to climb the hill going the other way.

Many motorhome tires are only rated for use up to 75 mph.

AlwaysDreaming wrote:


What is your interstate cruising speed? I would imagine there is significant MPG increase at 60 MPH as opposed to 70 MPH?


There would be some increase for sure, it's hard to predict exactly how much. Usually there's some speed where it just seems comfortable to drive, which sometimes depends partly on what the surrounding traffic is doing. I probably tend to cruise around 65 mph in my class C on the interstates, though it's not a hard and fast rule by any means. Going up some of the hills it's of necessity slower.

JaxDad

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Posted: 06/26/18 01:37pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

AlwaysDreaming wrote:

What is your interstate cruising speed? I would imagine there is significant MPG increase at 60 MPH as opposed to 70 MPH?

Also, "overnight" at Cracker Barrel seems to be a great option for 8 hours rest (7pm - 2am). I have not read of anyone being turned away. They are all over the eastern seaboard interstates. Walmart's on I-81 (all rural areas) have positive reviews. Walmart on I-95 Walterboro got good reads. Any plums you know of (or bad apples)?

Many Thanks for your help and opinions!


I'm not sure it's "significant" but it's measurable for sure. Every rig has a 'sweet spot' where it likes to run, it varies with your gearing, power band, etc., etc.

In my case, my there's very little difference between 60 mph (engine lugging but less wind resistance) and 70 mph (sweet spot but more wind resistance) but then again I'm also traveling 15% faster, so on say a trip to Florida, I'm going to save about 7 hours of driving, and burning gas.

IMHO you'll be way better off overnight for those 8 hours by stopping 11pm to 7am. Especially at places like Cracker Barrel, there's a huge difference in the number of cars in their lot at 11pm versus 7pm, dinner hour isn't the time to tie up parking spots. If businesses are going to be nice to RV's then we owe it to them to be nice to them too.

The Tamarack Center at Beckley WV (tamarackwv dot com) is a fantastic place to overnight, lots of service businesses (gas, food, etc.) around it and plenty of quiet parking. RV's are very welcome and it's a great spot geographically for that trip.

jplante4

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Posted: 06/26/18 04:38pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

JaxDad wrote:


But you missed the return flight part of the discussion, the downwind leg of the flight.


I didn't miss a thing. You're arguing for the sake of arguing. You spend more time going uphill/into the wind than you do going downhil/downwind. You use more fuel in the mountains than the flatlands.

Did you got to Embry Riddle or what?

JaxDad

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Posted: 06/26/18 05:05pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

jplante4 wrote:

JaxDad wrote:


But you missed the return flight part of the discussion, the downwind leg of the flight.


I didn't miss a thing. You're arguing for the sake of arguing. You spend more time going uphill/into the wind than you do going downhil/downwind. You use more fuel in the mountains than the flatlands.

Did you got to Embry Riddle or what?


JaxDad wrote:

So in the end I really only burned an extra 2.195 gallons on the whole trip. Just like the fuel savings gained by the increased fuel economy going downhill.

Nobody said was a ‘wash’ but it must be taken into account.


Nope, highly edjimukated by Uncle Sam, after a couple years in 2nd MAW, MAG-14 at Cherry Point.

Arguing for the sake of arguing you say?

jplante4

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Posted: 06/26/18 06:31pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

JaxDad wrote:

Nope, highly edjimukated by Uncle Sam, after a couple years in 2nd MAW, MAG-14 at Cherry Point.


Ya. Jarhead was my second guess.

JoeH

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Posted: 06/29/18 03:09pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I go to NY and Maine from FL every year. I take the 81 route to avoid the traffic hassles. I think you will find that your MPG will not be significantly different on either route.


Joe
2013 Dutch Star 4338- all electric
Toad is 2015 F-150 with bikes,kayaks and Harley aboard

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