Good Sam Club Open Roads Forum: Tow Vehicles: Can someone explain this?
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 > Can someone explain this?

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ShinerBock

SATX

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Posted: 07/07/18 09:24am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

nickthehunter wrote:

I’ll tell him (hopefully once he hears it he’ll be done).
Shiner - you are indeed smarter than the manufacturers. The manufacturer’s engineers are stupid and know nothing about the products they are designing. You indeed have figured it out and everyone here should ignore the manufacturer’s ratings and go by the “Sihiner Ratings” instead.


Actually I used to work for said manufactures and on the dealership level for over 20 years now. One of my jobs throughout those years was to spec out trucks for our medium and heavy duty customers to ensure they were well within their axle ratings and legal for what they were using their truck for.

It was not uncommon to take a class 7 or 8 truck and de-rate it for a customer to class 6 so they did not have to pay higher registration costs. Many of these customers only needed the class 7 or 8 capabilities off road and were generally empty on road. So yeah, I know how common it is to de-rate a trucks GVWR even though the truck itself can handle more just for registration purposes.

* This post was edited 07/07/18 10:05am by ShinerBock *

Grit dog

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Posted: 07/07/18 10:19am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Shiner, your preaching to the choir, this horse is beat down dead. (But you were looking for the debate when you started the thread anyway)


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MFL

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Posted: 07/07/18 11:38am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Grit dog wrote:

Shiner, your preaching to the choir, this horse is beat down dead. (But you were looking for the debate when you started the thread anyway)


Yup, Grit has nailed it again!

I can remember someone, I think a Mod, maybe Barney, posting a pick of a dead horse, upside down on it's back.

I,m just going to add my .02, that I have posted before. If only the folks towing an RV, staying within all/every rating of the TV, were allowed on the public roadways, I'd not need a camping reservation, even on Holidays. [emoticon]

Jerry

* This post was edited 07/07/18 11:48am by MFL *





Me Again

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Posted: 07/07/18 01:47pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

MFL wrote:

Grit dog wrote:

Shiner, your preaching to the choir, this horse is beat down dead. (But you were looking for the debate when you started the thread anyway)


Yup, Grit has nailed it again!

I can remember someone, I think a Mod, maybe Barney, posting a pick of a dead horse, upside down on it's back.

I,m just going to add my .02, that I have posted before. If only the folks towing an RV, staying within all/every rating of the TV, were allowed on the public roadways, I'd not need a camping reservation, even on Holidays. [emoticon]

Jerry


Yep, throw LT265/75R16E on those 6" wide early Duramax 2500 GM's and you are ready to tow just about anything to Arizona for the winter. Saw a lot of it over our 10 winters there.


2015 RAM 3500 CC SB SRW Our Rig New 2017 Bighorn 3575el. Retired and enjoying it!


CapriRacer

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Posted: 07/08/18 05:55am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

demiles wrote:

…… I’m not going to continue to play the “tell me what I want to hear” game.


Turns out you were right!


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CapriRacer

Visit my web site: www.BarrysTireTech.com

nickthehunter

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Posted: 07/08/18 06:23am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ShinerBock wrote:

nickthehunter wrote:

I’ll tell him (hopefully once he hears it he’ll be done).
Shiner - you are indeed smarter than the manufacturers. The manufacturer’s engineers are stupid and know nothing about the products they are designing. You indeed have figured it out and everyone here should ignore the manufacturer’s ratings and go by the “Sihiner Ratings” instead.


Actually I used to work for said manufactures and on the dealership level for over 20 years now. One of my jobs throughout those years was to spec out trucks for our medium and heavy duty customers to ensure they were well within their axle ratings and legal for what they were using their truck for.

It was not uncommon to take a class 7 or 8 truck and de-rate it for a customer to class 6 so they did not have to pay higher registration costs. Many of these customers only needed the class 7 or 8 capabilities off road and were generally empty on road. So yeah, I know how common it is to de-rate a trucks GVWR even though the truck itself can handle more just for registration purposes.
BS - the only thing they did was register it at less than it’s GVWR, it still had the same GVWR as set by the manufacturer regardless of what the license plate said. Nothing was derated.

* This post was edited 07/08/18 06:36am by nickthehunter *

ShinerBock

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Posted: 07/08/18 08:29am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

nickthehunter wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

nickthehunter wrote:

I’ll tell him (hopefully once he hears it he’ll be done).
Shiner - you are indeed smarter than the manufacturers. The manufacturer’s engineers are stupid and know nothing about the products they are designing. You indeed have figured it out and everyone here should ignore the manufacturer’s ratings and go by the “Sihiner Ratings” instead.


Actually I used to work for said manufactures and on the dealership level for over 20 years now. One of my jobs throughout those years was to spec out trucks for our medium and heavy duty customers to ensure they were well within their axle ratings and legal for what they were using their truck for.

It was not uncommon to take a class 7 or 8 truck and de-rate it for a customer to class 6 so they did not have to pay higher registration costs. Many of these customers only needed the class 7 or 8 capabilities off road and were generally empty on road. So yeah, I know how common it is to de-rate a trucks GVWR even though the truck itself can handle more just for registration purposes.
BS - the only thing they did was register it at less than it’s GVWR, it still had the same GVWR as set by the manufacturer regardless of what the license plate said. Nothing was derated.


Nope, it is not BS. I, the manufacturer, purposely de-rated a class 7 & 8 trucks with a class 6 GVWR. Very similar to how Ford de-rates certain class 3 F350's to fit into s class 2B GVWR, how they de-rated the class 4 F450 (pick-up only) to fit into a class 3 GVWR, and how they will de-rate certain class 7 F750's to fit into a class 6 GVWR. It really does happen more than you think especially in the medium and heavy duty industry.

ShinerBock

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Posted: 07/08/18 09:11am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

MFL wrote:

Grit dog wrote:

Shiner, your preaching to the choir, this horse is beat down dead. (But you were looking for the debate when you started the thread anyway)


Yup, Grit has nailed it again!

I can remember someone, I think a Mod, maybe Barney, posting a pick of a dead horse, upside down on it's back.

I,m just going to add my .02, that I have posted before. If only the folks towing an RV, staying within all/every rating of the TV, were allowed on the public roadways, I'd not need a camping reservation, even on Holidays. [emoticon]

Jerry


Exactly! One of the major reasons I posted this was due to some one saying I needed more truck for hauling 3k ,even though I was well within my GAWR, and said a 1 ton was needed.

This reminded me about the 1 tons I saw that had a lower GAWR than my truck when I was helping my father in law pick out a new truck. If I had that 1 ton then I would be over the rear GAWR with 3,100 lbs while still being under its GVWR, but would be over my 2500's GVWR while still being under it's rear GAWR.

Then there are the manufactures that de-rate their trucks to fit in a lower class like Ford does with their F450 and some F350's. This is not the case for all manufacturers because some like Ram seam to just increase the capabilities of the trucks in their current class like how select Ram 3500 trucks has similar specs and capabilities of F450's and Ram 2500's has higher specs and capabilities of select F350's.

I would wager that no one would question a de-rated 10k GVWR F350 going over it's GVWR simply because it has a "3" in the badge, but would question a Ram 2500 going over it's 10k GVWR even though the Ram has higher GAWR than the de-rated F350. As was stated earlier, it is not as simple as it looks and the old way of judging a trucks capabilities based on the numbers in their badge or whether they are a 1 ton or 3/4 ton goes out the window especially between makes.

Me Again

Sunbird(Wa)/snowbird(Az)

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Posted: 07/08/18 09:26am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Sorta like the 2nd gen RAM 2500s that all 6084 listed as RGAWR, when many were shipped with optional LT265/75R16E rated at 3415 each vs the standard LT245/75R16E rated at 3042 each. Add the camper option and you got 1T rear springs. So one have basically a SRW 3500 with 2500 badges, and a tire selection that was more capable than the 3rd gens with 17" rims and tires.

Many of us towed for years with these 2nd gens well over the low 8800 GVWR. My was licensed to 12K in Washington State.

ShinerBock

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Posted: 07/08/18 10:39am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Or like my father in laws previous 2003 F350 which had a 9,900 GVWR, but a 6,750 rear GAWR. He went over his GVWR all the time, but bever cam close to his GAWR.

Although, all SRW 350/3500 trucks prior to 2007-2010(depending on the make) were in the same class 2b as 250/2500 trucks because they had a GVWR under 10k. So they were what many here considered a 3/4 ton per the EPA and NHTSA truck classification standards even though many view them as 1 tons.

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