3/4 Ton 250, 2500 payload limitations (gas vs diesel)

[95jersey]

Was thinking on eventually upgrading to a 3/4 ton (250, 2500), and as I do more research, I am not understanding the benefit of the diesel based on the numbers on paper.

For example, while the towing numbers for the diesel are usually a few thousand lbs higher on a particular model compared to it's gas counterpart, the payload goes down significantly with the diesel.

Based on the Ford 250, it has standard payload at 3100lbs with the gas motor, but go to diesel, and this number seem to go down almost 1000lbs. I guess this is because of the extra weight of the motor.

What is the purpose of such astronomical tow ratings with the diesel, if your payload prevents you from towing anything near those loads? it seems you will run out of payload long before you get to your tow capacity.

[blt2ski]

ANY and ALL options reduce payload based on a base rig. I have 3800 lbs of payload in my C2500 reg cab. If I go to an ext cab, I lost 400 lbs of payload. Crew an additional 300 lbs. Power windows, 30 lbs per window. Cruise control is 2 lbs, Diesel engine is 800-1200 lbs depending upon brand. BB vs a SB or V6 vs a V8 gas, an additional 200-400 lbs of payload is lost. Leather pkg is 400-800 lbs depending upon the cab type......
Question becomes, if you are going to go by door sticker warranty numbers. You need to figure out the bare bones tare wt of a given truck you want, add in extra's, figure out if this is enough payload for you, spouse, Mr Winston the super dog! 4 adult teenage kids as I had. Rack, cross bed tool box, canoe etc. 700-800 lbs of hitch wt for a 7000 lb trailer.....low and behold, I needed a sw 1 ton Crew cab to have the 3000 lbs of payload I needed to haul everybody around.

You also do not under stand actual legal gross weights. I've been pulled over too many times above and beyond manufactures limits to keep track. I have yet to get an overweight ticket. As my "PAID" for license has been higher than I weighed. You get up to 500 lbs per inch width of tire, or 20K lbs max per axel. Being overweight is not a moving violation, so it does not get reported to licensing dept, insurance etc. With this said......

WHERE YOU WILL get in trouble, if truly at an unsafe weight per say, is a field test to see if your brakes work properly. If you fail this test, this goes on the driving record, insurance, you are red tagged, and can not drive down the road until you have your brakes fixed etc......This gets expensive. Or if you do not have the correct lights for the gvw, vehicle width etc you are running down the road at, again. you get red tagged, and cannot move until you fix the issues.

If you need say 3000 ls of payload, depending upon the cab style of truck, you may need a basic 25 series reg cab like I have.maybe an ext cab 25, more than likely a sw 35, same with a crew, or more likely a dw35 in a crew to get 3000 lbs per the door sticker!

Also, you have less than 25 posts since 2014 when you joined. So you have not posted much of anywhere in that time frame. Maybe read threads posts etc.

Your question has been answered multiple times. If you have more diesel vs gas questions, read the diesel vs gas thread at the top, and post question their.

Thank you
marty
TV moderator

[95jersey]

spoon059 wrote:

95jersey wrote:
we'll if you get into an accident and you are over your vehicle tow limits and someone dies/gets hurt, you are going to jail. Also your insurance company does not have to pay the claim. I am not supporting either position, just the legal facts that limit.

Got any links to support your claim?

Just to make sure we are on the same page here... you are saying that if you were driving drunk, your insurance would cover you, but if you were 20 lbs over your GVWR your insurance would NOT cover you?

Most insurance policies have clauses that allow for the company not to pay on claims if the damages were caused because of intentional actions on the part of the insured. If they can show that you knew or reasonably should have known that you were engaging in conduct that is, on it's face, illegal or negligent, then the liability lies entirely with you personally, and they have the legal option to not pay.

More importantly, if someone gets killed or severely hurt due to your negligence, you could face jail time as well. Think about if someone hits a person in accident and is drunk or was looking down at their phone, that person could easily face manslaughter charges. This happen to someone I know and they barely escaped jail time due to a legal process error. The same applies here.

[spoon059]

95jersey wrote:
Thanks for all the replies. Just don't want to make an expensive mistake.

Then skip the 3/4 ton and buy a 1 ton. The cost is minimal and you get the yellow sticker that will make you feel more comfortable. If you aren't worried about your HOA limiting trucks over 10,000 lbs in your neighborhood or you aren't worried about local roads that prohibit trucks over 10,000 lbs and you don't live in a state that charges excessive fees for a truck over 10,000 lbs then you are golden.

[spoon059]

95jersey wrote:
we'll if you get into an accident and you are over your vehicle tow limits and someone dies/gets hurt, you are going to jail. Also your insurance company does not have to pay the claim. I am not supporting either position, just the legal facts that limit.

Got any links to support your claim?

Just to make sure we are on the same page here... you are saying that if you were driving drunk, your insurance would cover you, but if you were 20 lbs over your GVWR your insurance would NOT cover you?

[valhalla360]

95jersey wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:
With a few exceptions, 3/4 & 1 ton trucks are nearly identical. In particular, motor & transmissions.

Tow rating is mostly about the motor & transmission. They don't make different lower rated motors & transmissions for 3/4 ton trucks...the result is pulling power is pretty much the same.

Cargo capacity is mostly about springs, suspension and wheels. Regardless of engine, they are the same, so the heavier diesel works against you as it eats up capacity.

In terms of real life towing, you can usually tow more with a bumper pull as hitch weights are typically 10-15% of trailer GVW. The result is the tow rating often is the limiting factor. If you go with a 5th wheel, pin weights are typically 20-25% and cargo capacity often is the limiting factor.

We'll the 3.5TT in the F150 has 475lb ft torque, more than most if not all 3/4 gas motors and it doesn't have a higher tow rating than a 3/4 gas truck?

It just seems counter intuitive. The payload of my F150 is 2030lbs. If I went 250 diesel, I may get a couple hundred more pounds. If I went gas I get another 1000lbs. Doesn't seem worth it.

I said 3/4 and 1 ton trucks are mostly built identical with a few exceptions (mostly rear suspension). 1/2 ton trucks are totally different animals from the frame up. Different transmission, smaller brakes, lighter duty axles, softer springs, etc... This is the equivalent of saying you bought a 700hp Ferrari so you should be able to tow more than a diesel one ton dually because you have more HP.

If you are willing to abuse the truck, your 1/2ton will likely pull just as much as the V8 gas in the 3/4ton is rated for but don't expect it to hold up or do as well as long when pushed to the limits of what the 3/4ton is rated for.

[DallasSteve]

SidecarFlip wrote:
Keep in mind that if you have a lease vehicle, your leas might prohibit towing entirely.

That's good to know. That will be my first question/comment in my search.

[BarryG20]

It is not all about payload there are other factors to consider as well. Someone previously mentioned torque and hp. Also to add the power is different. I can’t speak about the v8 diesels but my Cummins is at max torque at about 1500 rpm and stays there darn near all the way to redline. I am cruising along at 60 mph at about 1500 rpm. The gas engine max torque is going to be quite a bit farther up in the power band typically way higher than your cruising rpms and at least for me higher than I really want to run it for long. Along the lines of 4000 rpms While it can take it no way it can’t be accelerating wear compared to 1500rpms. Also the heavier truck will feel more stable towing. Next would be if you are that concerned about payload on a 3/4 ton jump to a 1 ton. On my 17 ram the 1 ton was literally $400 more than the 3/4 ton for identically optioned

[BillandCarole]

95jersey wrote:
Thanks for all the replies. Just don't want to make an expensive mistake.

I hear you. Its a lot of bucks, and it comes down to what we can afford or are willing to pay. We remember our "lean years" and fortunately have moved beyond them.
And we haven't even addressed the issue of what is to be towed. I have no doubt that the newer V8s have the power to tow and certainly are 8 to 9K less expensive. This being said, we have the luxury of diesel and are enjoying that luxury while we can. We kept our last truck 11 years and still have it, although we have just ordered, you guessed it, a new diesel.
Regards
Bill

[95jersey]

Thanks for all the replies. Just don't want to make an expensive mistake.

[Dayle1]

To OP,

There have been some very good replies, I hope you understand the excellent info and it helps with your future decisions. A 3/4 ton diesel will sweetly and legally tow anything that doesn't exceed it's rear axle GAWR or it's REGISTERED GVWR.

[Hammerboy]

Bedlam wrote:
If you are talking payload, the rear of the truck doesn’t change that much in weight between a gasser and diesel. The difference is on the front axle between engine types. Because of the vehicle class weight limits, it makes it look like it is less

My thoughts too. Available load on the rear axle is practically the same gas or diesel and that's the axle that takes the weight of your trailer so if I'm not crossing that I'm happy. If you have pulled with a diesel you'll understand

The 250/2500's are more capable than what the rating suggest.

Dan

[BillandCarole]

I think the real answer to this question sets in almost any active RV park. A good 75% or more are diesels. The technical issues are mostly academic. The more experienced the operators, the more diesels you see. We've done both. The choice is yours. We've been there and done that too....
Bill

[Bedlam]

If you are talking payload, the rear of the truck doesn’t change that much in weight between a gasser and diesel. The difference is on the front axle between engine types. Because of the vehicle class weight limits, it makes it look like it is less capable.

Ford markets a F450 in the 350 class. It looks like it has less payload than the smaller F350, but one look at the stronger and heavier components will tell you otherwise.

[rhagfo]

95jersey wrote:

BillandCarole wrote:
We towed (the major reason we have a truck) with 2 different 1/2 ton Tundras. the Rig weighed 5K. It bogged down and crawled in the mountains. It wouldn't pass a gas station as it would only go about 200 miles before the fuel light came on. It was a great truck, but not enough of one to tow even that modest weight.
We now tow with a 3/4 ton diesel that is so much less hassle to tow with. Refueling is always an issue with us. How crowded is it, will be fit under the canopy, how expensive is it, can we get around the corners, and can we get in without dragging? Larger (much) fuel tanks no give us a 500 mile effective fuel range and fewer fill ups, it pulls with no strain and does so at a much higher speed with lower RPM's. It also is much more stable going down the road if for no other reason than its so much heavier and the weight is more evenly distributed. They are more expensive, but IMHO worth it if you spend a lot of time in your truck.
My Thoughts
Regards
Bill

I agree 100%. My debate was gas vs diesel (not 1/2 vs 3/4 ton). It just doesn't seem worth to lose all that payload to go diesel. I mean if you have a camper bumper pull, chances it is not more than 12,000lbs (and that is on the heaviest side of bumper bull campers). The only trailers that weight more are 5th wheels, and based on their pin weight, most would all exceed the payload rating for a diesel 3/4 ton anyway, unless equipped with some crazy options

So where does the diesel really fit into towing? It seems that the payload counters any benefit for additional capacity.

Simply pay for the 350/3500 and get the payload you need! Once you have towed with a diesel you will understand! Worth every ounce of payload you give up!
Our 2001 can get about 22 to 23 mpg empty at 60 to 65, and about 11 to 12 mpg pulling near
12,000#!