Propane Tanks Expired

[boosTT]

One of my 30lb tanks was near empty and when I tried to fill it the guy said it was 1 year expired. How difficult is it to get re-certified? How long does it take?

I'm thinking about just going around to different stations until someone fills it as is. It has worked in the past for me.

[Jay_Coe]

We've got a half dozen 100lb tanks at our cabin that are from 30-60 years old. Never a problem getting them filled. A couple have had leaky valves replaced. Some are stamped Property of Some Company that's been closed for 40 years.

[colliehauler]

mobeewan wrote:

colliehauler wrote:
I find it very interesting the recertification process that some of you described. My understanding for proper certification the cylinder needs to be inspected for damage/rust then filled with water and hydro tested. (Bringing the pressures up to more then operating pressure). Then if it passes stamping the new date on the cylinder for recertification. What some of you described is negligent and irresponsible.

It is not negligent or irresponsible. It has been done this way for decades by law in accordance with federal regulation.

There are 2 different recertifications allowed under federal regulations. One is the visual recertification you call negligent and irresponsible. The cylinder is inspected for excessive rust and pitting. The valve and the vent screw are also visually inspected. If deemed to pass inspection the cylinder is recertified for 5 years. When the first 5 year recertification is done an inspection number is stamped or etched on to the cylinder collar or an inspection sticker affixed to the cylinder collar with the number. The number has the letter E at the beginning or end. The second time the letter F is used. This type of inspection can only be done 2 times.

The other test is what you are describing which involves a hydrostatic pressure test. That test allows for the cylinder to be recertified for a longer period of time and the letter S is used in the recertification number added to the cylinder. I don't know how many times this recertification can be done.

Thank you for the clarification. I was only aware of the hydrostatic test done for recertification.

[mobeewan]

colliehauler wrote:
I find it very interesting the recertification process that some of you described. My understanding for proper certification the cylinder needs to be inspected for damage/rust then filled with water and hydro tested. (Bringing the pressures up to more then operating pressure). Then if it passes stamping the new date on the cylinder for recertification. What some of you described is negligent and irresponsible.

It is not negligent or irresponsible. It has been done this way for decades by law in accordance with federal regulation.

There are 2 different recertifications allowed under federal regulations. One is the visual recertification you call negligent and irresponsible. The cylinder is inspected for excessive rust and pitting. The valve and the vent screw are also visually inspected. If deemed to pass inspection the cylinder is recertified for 5 years. When the first 5 year recertification is done an inspection number is stamped or etched on to the cylinder collar or an inspection sticker affixed to the cylinder collar with the number. The number has the letter E at the beginning or end. The second time the letter F is used. This type of inspection can only be done 2 times.

The other test is what you are describing which involves a hydrostatic pressure test. That test allows for the cylinder to be recertified for a longer period of time and the letter S is used in the recertification number added to the cylinder. I don't know how many times this recertification can be done.

[Turtle_n_Peeps]

colliehauler wrote:
I find it very interesting the recertification process that some of you described. My understanding for proper certification the cylinder needs to be inspected for damage/rust then filled with water and hydro tested. (Bringing the pressures up to more then operating pressure). Then if it passes stamping the new date on the cylinder for recertification. What some of you described is negligent and irresponsible.

How many have you heard of failing? Two separate businesses years apart looked at my tanks and said; "yep. looks good" and slapped a sticker on it. I think it was $40 bucks for 2 tanks. After he did fill them he smeared some bubble stuff on the valve and said it was good to go. One of my tanks for my mobile home was made in the 30's. The valve still did not leak. I asked if it should be replaced and the old owner said "son that tank and valve was made by Americans in the 30's. The junk we get now is from China. I would leave it alone."

I took the owners advice. 🙂

[rhagfo]

Turtle n Peeps wrote:
After seeing how they re-cert, I make my own stickers to re-cert! 😉

When I went to have my tanks recertified the valves were found to be leaking, the cost to replace the valve was about $20 less than a new tank, so For $20 I get and additional 7 years before recertification again!

[colliehauler]

I find it very interesting the recertification process that some of you described. My understanding for proper certification the cylinder needs to be inspected for damage/rust then filled with water and hydro tested. (Bringing the pressures up to more then operating pressure). Then if it passes stamping the new date on the cylinder for recertification. What some of you described is negligent and irresponsible.

[Turtle_n_Peeps]

After seeing how they re-cert, I make my own stickers to re-cert! 😉

[mobeewan]

Don't know of any problems in Virginia. Learned about the existance of the labels at one place I filled up with propane. I saw a roll of them in the bottom of the filling station cabinet and asked about them. The attendant gave me a few for the cylinders I was filling and some others I had at home.

I have seen posts on this forum about people getting tickets for not having the labels. I don't think it happens a lot, but more likely where there are state troopers who's sole job is revenue generation and it is their little known go to gotcha.

[CavemanCharlie]

mobeewan wrote:

MNGeeks61 wrote:
weird, never seen that sticker before on an RV propane tank. Granted we only "rv'd" towing a popup/travel trailer since 1996. For that matter, I don't think our 125 gallon tank up north even has one of those...

Maybe it's specific to a certain area?

It is a federal regulation both in the US and Canada. The regulation is mirrored in individual state and provincial laws or regulations. The sticker identifies the actual contents of the cylinder while it is being transported on the highways. It is only added after filling the cylinder the first time. If it is a brand new cylinder that has never been filled with liquified propane you can't put one on it because it doesn't have any thing in it except air or a vacuum purge.

Any cylinder not just propane cylinders being transported on the highway has to have a label indicating the tank contents whether argon, oxygen, acetelene, hydrogen, etc. In essence the sticker is a hazmat label for the contents.

Seeing that at a lot of places the people filling cylinders don't appear to know what they are doing or don't use proper procedure filling the cylinders, not opening the vent screw, not weighing cylinders and relying on the OPD to stop the filling process when the cylinder is legally full, no one can expect them to put the label on the cylinder for you. The average person doesn't know it is required until told or they get a ticket from the highway revenue agents looking to fill their ticket quota.

Thank you for your post about what the sticker looks like. It sounds to me like you have a lot of cops in VA that have very little to do. But, I have bumped into them around here from time to time also. I have never heard of anyone getting a ticket in this area for the lack of the sticker. And, the site you linked to wants 5 bucks for one of them. The next time I have a tank filled I will ask if they have any of them I can have for free. Otherwise I am going to take my chances and hope for the best. I'm glad that I know about those stickers now and will try to find some just in case I bump into a bored cop someday too. Thanks.

[wnjj]

Bobbo wrote:

wnjj wrote:
How about we just assume a propane cylinder has propane in it instead of relying on some stupid peeling, faded sticker to tell us this? Is there really any harm in acting like there is some inside when it’s brand new? The lack of a serious safety issue despite so many never hearing or them shows how useless the stickers are.

Actually, they are not "propane cylinders." They are pressure cylinders that can be filled with any gas. However, 99.9993% of them are filled with propane, so we are safe to make the assumption that is what they contain. I would up that to 100% if they are on an RV. I, also, have never had a label on a cylinder, and don't plan to look for labels to apply now.

I completely agree with you. I suppose I should have put quotes around “propane” since it’s pretty much what everyone assumes them to be. They should require stickers for the 0.0007% that don’t have propane.

[Bobbo]

wnjj wrote:
How about we just assume a propane cylinder has propane in it instead of relying on some stupid peeling, faded sticker to tell us this? Is there really any harm in acting like there is some inside when it’s brand new? The lack of a serious safety issue despite so many never hearing or them shows how useless the stickers are.

Actually, they are not "propane cylinders." They are pressure cylinders that can be filled with any gas. However, 99.9993% of them are filled with propane, so we are safe to make the assumption that is what they contain. I would up that to 100% if they are on an RV. I, also, have never had a label on a cylinder, and don't plan to look for labels to apply now.

[MNGeeks61]

mobeewan wrote:

MNGeeks61 wrote:
weird, never seen that sticker before on an RV propane tank. Granted we only "rv'd" towing a popup/travel trailer since 1996. For that matter, I don't think our 125 gallon tank up north even has one of those...

Maybe it's specific to a certain area?

It is a federal regulation both in the US and Canada. The regulation is mirrored in individual state and provincial laws or regulations. The sticker identifies the actual contents of the cylinder while it is being transported on the highways. It is only added after filling the cylinder the first time. If it is a brand new cylinder that has never been filled with liquified propane you can't put one on it because it doesn't have any thing in it except air or a vacuum purge.

Any cylinder not just propane cylinders being transported on the highway has to have a label indicating the tank contents whether argon, oxygen, acetelene, hydrogen, etc. In essence the sticker is a hazmat label for the contents.

Seeing that at a lot of places the people filling cylinders don't appear to know what they are doing or don't use proper procedure filling the cylinders, not opening the vent screw, not weighing cylinders and relying on the OPD to stop the filling process when the cylinder is legally full, no one can expect them to put the label on the cylinder for you. The average person doesn't know it is required until told or they get a ticket from the highway revenue agents looking to fill their ticket quota.

So then every RV I've ever owned with propane tanks has been illegal because the RV dealer has never put one on...nor the manufacturer.

For that matter, when we were hit from behind in our RV, the state trooper mentioned nothing about the required sticker either, nor did I get any ticket. I assume you're correct, but is everyone blissfully unaware of the requirement, or is the manufacturer/dealer somehow exempted from this requirement?

[wnjj]

How about we just assume a propane cylinder has propane in it instead of relying on some stupid peeling, faded sticker to tell us this? Is there really any harm in acting like there is some inside when it’s brand new? The lack of a serious safety issue despite so many never hearing of them shows how useless the stickers are.

[afidel]

Just had a tank that was 11 years expired filled, 02E date code. Kid asked me when I last had it filled and I told him about 6 months ago, it was actually about 8 since it was last December when preparing for our trip down to Florida for Xmas. He said he'd fill out for me since I knew it held pressure but that I was best off exchanging it before my next fill. I think I will but I'll check for a fresh date code on the exchange. My other tank is also expired but by much less time and it's in better shape so I'll probably have it recertified assuming the Amerigas near me does that.