Have dealership service depts gone downhill lately, or...

[rexlion]

...or is it just the dealers here in Tulsa that are so lousy? I hope things are better elsewhere!

I always took my Toyota to the dealerships for regular maintenance, but after it had about 125,000 miles on it, suddenly the dealers would report leak after leak after leak of various components. After shelling out a couple grand, I finally got fed up when one of the service managers informed me I had yet another leak and needed a new timing chain cover gasket to the tune of $2600 (or was it $2800, I forget). I took it to an independent shop and their mechanic found that 3 of the cover bolts were loose! He tightened them, washed the area, test drove it and confirmed there was no more leak. No charge for that repair, since I was having some other stuff done at the same time.

Now today I was visiting with my buddy; he and his wife have 3 Ford diesel pickups (F350,F450) for their hotshot business, and says he is completely fed up with every Ford dealer in the metro! In the latest encounter with dealer service, the check engine light was on and some sort of oil leak was evident. The diagnosis: need a differential seal and some DEF system part he'd never heard of, total cost (IIRC) would be $9,000 and there was a week-long wait for parts. They needed the truck sooner (a 2nd one was in the shop awaiting a fuel pump but 90,000 pumps are backordered nationwide, plus needing a new engine due to a cracked cylinder wall). So they took it to an independent diesel shop out of town (in Muskogee), a small but busy place. There, instead of $9,000, the mechanic showed him the cause of the leak: the differential fill plug was hanging on by just one thread! And the check engine light was due to low turbo coolant; the factory had failed to install some brackets that are supposed to hold some fluid lines away from a part of the radiator, causing rubbing and a hole which let coolant escape. Total repair cost was $680 and the truck was quickly back on the road. So now he's pulled the one with the bad engine out from the dealer and it is awaiting a 'second opinion' in Muskogee as well. This would be their second engine replacement in the past 2 years for 2016 model year trucks (but they do run a ton of miles).

It seems like (in our opinion) these dealer service departments in our metro area seem to be plagued with a combination of problems including incompetence, a mentality of "let's throw expensive parts at it and see what happens," and service advisors working on commission who have an incentive to sell fixes for nonexistent problems. I was wondering if others are seeing similar problems in other cities?

[JALLEN4]

bob_nestor wrote:
It's been a long, long time since mechanics actually worked for the dealerships. Now most mechanics are basically independent operators working in the dealership shops. They get paid according to the Chilton manual estimates for working on problems. So if there's a loose bolt causing an oil leak but they can sell it to the Service Manager as something more significant, they'll get paid for repairing the bigger issue even though it only takes them a minute or two to fix the real problem. Then they can move on to work another vehicle - time is money.

Best to stay away from dealerships, even for warranty work. In warranty work the factory will only pay for a clearly identified problem. So if the problem the customer reports could be caused by three different things and they don't know which one it is, the dealership won't want to work on it because if they guess wrong they won't get paid.

Learn to do your own work or find a good independent shop and build a good relationship with them for any repairs. An alternative is if you really have to take it into a dealership, take it to one other then the one you purchased the vehicle from. Chances are they'll assume you're upset with the selling dealer and they MAY work harder in the hopes of getting your future business.

Wow!!! I don't think I have seen a forum post with so many erroneous statements in a long time.

Technicians work under the same rules and employment guidelines they have for at least the last fifty years I have been involved. Dealerships and good independents alike have stringent standards they expect technicians to meet in the areas of training, equipment, customer satisfaction, production, etc. They are professionals whose job it is to satisfactorily make repairs and live within the ethics of the industry. As in any other field, there are varying degrees of talent and dedication involved but it would be just as stupid to state all Doctors are attempting to take advantage of insurance companies at the expense of the patient. Padding time on repairs and billing for work undone is nothing brilliant and technicians attempting to do this on a regular basis are soon discovered in any shop.

The statements made about warranty repairs reflect a total lack of knowledge as to how warranty operates. Often repairs are multiple causes and there are guidelines in place for the technician to follow during the diagnosis and repair. If the tech follows the proper procedures and the shop documents the repairs properly, the warranty will not stop paying until the problem is corrected. There are a number of failed no-talent techs crying about how unfair warranty is. They often wind up working in a back alley garage where they are paid for their time ...not their talent.

Suggesting you take the vehicle to a different shop than the one where purchased is a great idea if the original dealer has demonstrated he cannot properly fix your vehicle. Otherwise, a stupid suggestion! The dealer you buy from is where you have the leverage and if you are smart you buy where you expect to get the best service. Running from dealer to dealer just confirms to the dealer you are visiting that you well may be a problem customer. Building rapport with your servicing dealer as with anything else in life always results in a more satisfactory result.

[bob_nestor]

It's been a long, long time since mechanics actually worked for the dealerships. Now most mechanics are basically independent operators working in the dealership shops. They get paid according to the Chilton manual estimates for working on problems. So if there's a loose bolt causing an oil leak but they can sell it to the Service Manager as something more significant, they'll get paid for repairing the bigger issue even though it only takes them a minute or two to fix the real problem. Then they can move on to work another vehicle - time is money.

Best to stay away from dealerships, even for warranty work. In warranty work the factory will only pay for a clearly identified problem. So if the problem the customer reports could be caused by three different things and they don't know which one it is, the dealership won't want to work on it because if they guess wrong they won't get paid.

Learn to do your own work or find a good independent shop and build a good relationship with them for any repairs. An alternative is if you really have to take it into a dealership, take it to one other then the one you purchased the vehicle from. Chances are they'll assume you're upset with the selling dealer and they MAY work harder in the hopes of getting your future business.

[Tvov]

Groover wrote:
My son had a reminder yesterday of how incompetent and crooked some dealers are. Keep in mind that he bought the car from an individual and has never taken it to a dealer. Anyway, his local Nissan dealer called him and told him that his Leaf needed to be brought in for an oil change. For those who don't know, the Leaf is pure electric. No engine oil.

Later in the day he received a new Tesla Model 3. He said that was the best buying experience that he has ever had with a major purchase and the people that he worked with actually know what they are talking about and care about customer satisfaction.

He should have had them "change" the engine oil and oil filter, and then request the old oil filter. And also should have had them show him where the engine oil dipstick is.

[Groover]

My son had a reminder yesterday of how incompetent and crooked some dealers are. Keep in mind that he bought the car from an individual and has never taken it to a dealer. Anyway, his local Nissan dealer called him and told him that his Leaf needed to be brought in for an oil change. For those who don't know, the Leaf is pure electric. No engine oil.

Later in the day he received a new Tesla Model 3. He said that was the best buying experience that he has ever had with a major purchase and the people that he worked with actually know what they are talking about and care about customer satisfaction.

[hawkeye-08]

I had the rear end recall done on my 2011 GMC. I don't put a lot of miles on, mostly for towing. I don't like the dealer messing with my truck but wanted the recall done. Scheduled appt, all went well, until now I have a leak. I bought some gear oil and will service it and fix leak, but I have never had a drain plug, fill plug or gasket leak on a rear end and I serviced a bunch of them years ago.

The shop manager I worked for back then sold a bunch of services, just based on owners manual schedules. He would not push at all, just ask them if they needed anything done (often showed them in owners manuals the maintenance schedule). He was always careful to say, I didn't check to see if it has already been done, but if it has not, it is recommended,just let us know.

Cooling system flushes, transmission and rear end service, belts and hoses replaced are all easy money for a good shop.

The shop had a full service gas station out front also, 6 islands. Lots of business came in from there with belts or hoses needing replaced.

[Kavoom]

Ralph Cramden wrote:
Most of them suck, case in point.

I bought my 2015 GMC 2500 at a local family owned dealer that had been there for as long as I can remember. It was actually the first time I had ever purchased there. I took advantage of the free oil changes and then had them do a couple I paid for. The service department was great. The service writer was also the parts manager, and even turned a wrench if needed. No up-selling games.

Late last fall they were bought out by one of the local mega conglomerate super dooper auto groups. I took the truck there for a recall on the front suspension during the transition in ownership. When I say transition, the new sign was a banner tarp hung over the existing sign. They had to order a front end part for the steering which took a week to get.

I took the truck in a week later for the repair and not 5 minutes after handing over the keys I had this 12 yr old looking snot nose telling me I also need a cabin air filter for $57.00, and an air filter for $85.00, and I could use new tires and they would give me a deal as they had a special going on, only $1100.00 The service department is now staffed by 4 writers/advisers who look to all be between 12 and 16 years old. Welcome to Boystown LOL.

Hmmmm. The cabin air filter was $8.00 at Advance, took 30 seconds to change, but the one in there at 30K miles still looked like the new one so I didn't change it.

The air filter was a K&N I swapped from my previous truck, it did not even need cleaned.

I did need tires, but had them replaced for less than $650.00 with Bridgestone Duravis M700HDs, the same that came OEM on the truck. I don't have a clue what they were trying to hawk for $1100.00 that were on special? 14K gold ones maybe.

Well anyway they did the recall for the steering. The writer, Whitey Marsh or Pee Wee, came over while mining for gold up in his nose, and asked if I was in a hurry, because they had to do a front end alignment and needed to take it to one of their other dealerships about 40 miles away, as they do not do them there. Whatever, I already had jizzed away the entire morning. They bring the truck back, I get in and drive off, and now the steering wheel is off center and they ran about a 1/4 tank of gas out LOL. Now thats service if I have ever seen it.

When I got the new tires about a month later I had the same guy who I purchased them from do an alignment, and he said whoever aligned it at the dealership had to a total moron.

If you want the name of a dealer to definitely avoid, its any associated with C Harper Auto Group in SW PA.

I bought new KO2's and had them align it. You cannot really feel a misaligned truck I am finding. About two K later miles, I noticed how bad one side was wearing. Took it to a local shop and the alignment guy said they forgot to tighten one of the things you have to tighten to align. So, now I'm 5 32nd's off on that tire. And the dealership just gives me a blank stare. I have a newer repair place close that consists of three former employees of that dealership (certified mechanics) who got fed up and realized they could make more on their own AND not have to suffer under the culture of the dealership, a satellite of one of the regional mega dealers.

I was still under warranty and had a head light go out. They said since I had an aftermarket front bumper, it had caused things to loosen up and no free replacement...and the other side had a connector break off but they would be happy to fix everything for 970 bucks including the discount.

I went to my aftermarket guy and he got me new projectors, new spots in the aftermarket bumper AND they Rhinolined the aftermarket bumper. Looks great. Total 1,000 bucks. Sold.

[rexlion]

Dave H M wrote:
I been taking the DW's Toyo highlander to the stealer for peace of mind on the life time power train warranty. 10K oil changes. So last time I took it in, I had replaced the tires within 200 miles of going in. Yep they wanted to rotate the tires. Then 50 minutes into the service, the tech tried to sell me a fuel system clean up. i get so tired of watching the service techs hit up (especially the elders) for 100's of dollars of services.

Now the Ford stealer i take the F250 to has never suggested doing anything "extra" to the truck since 2012. Go figure.

Yeah, the Toy dealers here also love to push that fuel induction service.

[Grit_dog]

Ralph Cramden wrote:

Grit dog wrote:

FishOnOne wrote:
My cousin has been a diesel truck mechanic since '93. He once said the turn around rate on the mechanic's that come to the shop has been getting worse. These young guys just don't want to work and then they complain they don't make any money.

^ This. And I'm still trying to gauge, in my industry, if it's a function of the (great) economy, the snowflake generation (don't think so, our turnover isn't limited to millennials in the least), or what it is.
We have a fair amount of turnover and a sub group that we "should" turnover, but don't seem to be getting any A league replacements.
Example, hired a dedicated scheduler. Big construction, constant CPM schedule creation and updates on all projects and pursuits. Guy was/is pretty good P6 scheduler as in he knows the software well. Had a gravy job. 7:30-4 ish was usually all he was good for and we allowed that. Took more than average time off for "family" things like have to pick up the kids from ____ type stuff. Salary was good for the hours he put in and our bennys are great.
He just drug up, no warning.
I'm sure it's the same in the mechanic biz.

What is the comp package offered LOL. BTW I camp a lot which requires me to leave early once in awhile, I hate setting up in the dark.

Seeing that I am the PM, Estimator, Project Eng, Super, and at times the laboror or truck driver, that sure seems like a cushy position. Not sure about WA however, I hear it rains a lot which has to play hell with the critical path. Dont it suck when they drag up like that?

Market here is so bananas we can’t hire or keep people. And I work for an employee owned company with better Benny’s and potential for personal profit (employee ownership) than most.
On the rain thing, yeah the owners just bend ya over, make you sign up for unreasonable schedules and then just “forgive” the LDs and make the contractor eat the extra cost. Of course that’s not just with the weather. ALL the public entities I’ve built work for here in the past half dozen years are now pre programmed to deny everything, not follow their own spec unless it’s to their benefit, lie and get away with it.
If you don’t want to play, there’s 3 more contractors ready to move in and take their lumps.

[fj12ryder]

Every since buying my first new car, a 1976 Honda CVCC coupe, and having the dealer make a total mess of it when it was recalled for head gasket replacement, I've never been very happy with having any work done at a dealership. My experience has been that they charge more than independent shops, but don't seem to offer significantly better service.

And since I've only bought one new car since that Honda, I've never had much dealings with dealers for warranty service.

[Dave_H_M]

I been taking the DW's Toyo highlander to the stealer for peace of mind on the life time power train warranty. 10K oil changes. So last time I took it in, I had replaced the tires within 200 miles of going in. Yep they wanted to rotate the tires. Then 50 minutes into the service, the tech tried to sell me a fuel system clean up. i get so tired of watching the service techs hit up (especially the elders) for 100's of dollars of services.

Now the Ford stealer i take the F250 to has never suggested doing anything "extra" to the truck since 2012. Go figure.

[Ralph_Cramden]

Grit dog wrote:

FishOnOne wrote:
My cousin has been a diesel truck mechanic since '93. He once said the turn around rate on the mechanic's that come to the shop has been getting worse. These young guys just don't want to work and then they complain they don't make any money.

^ This. And I'm still trying to gauge, in my industry, if it's a function of the (great) economy, the snowflake generation (don't think so, our turnover isn't limited to millennials in the least), or what it is.
We have a fair amount of turnover and a sub group that we "should" turnover, but don't seem to be getting any A league replacements.
Example, hired a dedicated scheduler. Big construction, constant CPM schedule creation and updates on all projects and pursuits. Guy was/is pretty good P6 scheduler as in he knows the software well. Had a gravy job. 7:30-4 ish was usually all he was good for and we allowed that. Took more than average time off for "family" things like have to pick up the kids from ____ type stuff. Salary was good for the hours he put in and our bennys are great.
He just drug up, no warning.
I'm sure it's the same in the mechanic biz.

What is the comp package offered LOL. BTW I camp a lot which requires me to leave early once in awhile, I hate setting up in the dark.

Seeing that I am the PM, Estimator, Project Eng, Super, and at times the laboror or truck driver, that sure seems like a cushy position. Not sure about WA however, I hear it rains a lot which has to play hell with the critical path. Dont it suck when they drag up like that?

[TugCE]

Back when my Chevy was coming close to the end of my Extended Warranty, I wanted them to check the balance rates on the Injectors. As I knew the service writer pretty well, plus knowing the key words to use, I was able to get them to do it for me.

The Diesel Guy had quit a moth or so before soi asked if they had another one yet, I was told yes and that he was "Highly" Trained.

This is still an old fashioned type of dealership where you can actually walk into the service bays, with asking before of course.

So, I walked over to this "highly Trained Tech" and asked him how he was making out. He said he couldn't figure out how to run the tests with the Tech 2 (IIRC). Now the past Diesel Guy had showed me how to do it, so I asked this guy if I could show him how to do the test, which he did. He even thanked me!

I was sitting with my Friend the SW when the tech came in and said "he" checked out everything and it's all in great shape.

That was the last time my truck has been or will be back in that shop!

[rexlion]

Yep, a good honest mechanic is a great find. The shop I mentioned, the one that found the loose bolts on my timing chain cover, is where I go for just about everything now.

Heh. I just got a letter in the mail. Return address reads as follows (small print):
The offices of Records of declaration/Disbursements Division
National Correspondences Official Records
PO Box... OKC, OK
So I open it, and guess what? It's from Fowler Toyota! They want to buy back the Highlander that I haven't owned for 3 years.

Now, why would I do business with a deceitful company that uses a bogus, government-sounding return address in order to make sure I open the letter?

[Grit_dog]

FishOnOne wrote:
My cousin has been a diesel truck mechanic since '93. He once said the turn around rate on the mechanic's that come to the shop has been getting worse. These young guys just don't want to work and then they complain they don't make any money.

^ This. And I'm still trying to gauge, in my industry, if it's a function of the (great) economy, the snowflake generation (don't think so, our turnover isn't limited to millennials in the least), or what it is.
We have a fair amount of turnover and a sub group that we "should" turnover, but don't seem to be getting any A league replacements.
Example, hired a dedicated scheduler. Big construction, constant CPM schedule creation and updates on all projects and pursuits. Guy was/is pretty good P6 scheduler as in he knows the software well. Had a gravy job. 7:30-4 ish was usually all he was good for and we allowed that. Took more than average time off for "family" things like have to pick up the kids from ____ type stuff. Salary was good for the hours he put in and our bennys are great.
He just drug up, no warning.
I'm sure it's the same in the mechanic biz.