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Lithium 12 volt battery Is there a clear leader?

MEXICOWANDERER
Explorer
Explorer
Stick the battery in

Connect the wires

And the battery has a management system built in

Is there a favorite?
68 REPLIES 68

bdosborn
Explorer
Explorer
You didn't read what the OP was asking for.

Ahhhhh...

Ah cheap as in "Honey, forget Taco Bell's 99 cent special. Tonight we dine at Costco's food court".

AMAZON?

Was mulling something around 10 lbs 5 Kg that could be controlled drained to 0% and used with a BiPAP away from home in an outage. A nifty critter with remote 10 watt LED lamp and USB charger for an eBook.
2010 6.5'X11' TTT - Boxcar
Custom Frame, Poptop, AC, Espar Diesel Furnace, HW Heater, Sink, Shower, 12V-120V, LED Lights, TV and XM Radio, DVD Player, 300W PV Panels, PD 9140 Charger, Tongue Box, Filon Exterior, 1000W Generator, Patient Wife
Boxcar Build

pianotuna
Nomad II
Nomad II
240 watt hours is a joke. I use 100 watt hours to make a pot of coffee.

bdosborn wrote:
How about something like this:
Jackery Portable Power Station

Here's annoying Will doing a review on different models.

Annoying Will

Bruce
Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, 556 amp-hours of Telcom jars, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.

bdosborn
Explorer
Explorer
How about something like this:
Jackery Portable Power Station

Here's annoying Will doing a review on different models.

Annoying Will

Bruce
2010 6.5'X11' TTT - Boxcar
Custom Frame, Poptop, AC, Espar Diesel Furnace, HW Heater, Sink, Shower, 12V-120V, LED Lights, TV and XM Radio, DVD Player, 300W PV Panels, PD 9140 Charger, Tongue Box, Filon Exterior, 1000W Generator, Patient Wife
Boxcar Build

BFL13
Explorer II
Explorer II
Battle Born suggests the adjustable voltage PowerMax be used in its adjustable voltage mode set to 14.4v. They do not say, but of course at some point soon after reaching a full charge you would crank the voltage down to 13.6. Timing for that is not automatic.

Battle Born also wants their batts to have 20-30 minutes of absorption time, suggesting that time be set on chargers that have such timers (like some solar controllers and the fancier chargers in inverter/chargers).

The Bulk stage ends and Absorption begins about when battery voltage reaches charger voltage and amps then taper. However with Li batts AFAIK, this moment is not so obvious at all, and amps remain near charger max to a very high battery SOC.

I don't know how you can tell where you are at so you can note when to start the clock for the 20-30 minutes. Or indeed, how an automatic charger or controller can tell.

I also don't know how you can tell the battery is fully charged. It might have to do with the cell balancing gizmo. Not clear on what I read there, but it might give some indication it has done its trick at the end of a recharge. ??

Anyway, there seems to be a lack of information on just how you would be able to tell what you are doing when recharging an Li bank. It may be that I just haven't seen it.

EDIT--this is good! Note full charge is when amps taper to 3-5% of AH.

https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries

Looks like you could get by ok with a charger set to 14.4v and on a timer for its 120v once you know from experience how long it takes to get to where you want to be for SOC.

That would let you do a recharge without having to be there to stop the charge before it is too late and you go into an overcharge.
1. 1991 Oakland 28DB Class C
on Ford E350-460-7.5 Gas EFI
Photo in Profile
2. 1991 Bighorn 9.5ft Truck Camper on 2003 Chev 2500HD 6.0 Gas
See Profile for Electronic set-ups for 1. and 2.

3_tons
Explorer
Explorer
BFL13 wrote:
"In my mind, the ideal Lifepo4 charger would offer adjustable charge voltage (Like the PowerMax - but with a higher limit), and be a two stage design (though float is not necessary, nor harmful) so that the battery does not sit for an extended period while being held at maximum voltage..."

What limit is desired? It goes to 16.5v now.

It is adjustable single voltage (which does two battery "stages", bulk and absorption), but you want a charger end's two-stage.

Not sure how you can have a two-stage (at the charger) adjustable voltage that is automatic as seems to be desired here. You would need an adjustable timer to go with that, but that would need a trigger since you want the battery to get fully charged first and you don't know how long that will take.

The trigger would have to "see" that the battery is full somehow, and voltage can't be the trigger of course. However, it may be ok with Li batts, which start their absorption stages at a high SOC and you don't want them to be all the way full?


Thanks, upon a deeper dive I can now see that the powermax voltage does go much higher than is illustrated in the charge profile chart...By โ€˜two stageโ€™ my desire was simply to not have the charger remain in absorption for extended periods...

librty02
Explorer
Explorer
Housted wrote:
I just put 3 Battleborn 100 Ahr batteries in place of 400 Ahr of AGM.
I have 1050 watts of solar and after much consultation with BB my
converter is fine as is my solar controller, which is programable.
I was impressed with their construction and assembly methods.
I thought about making my own pack, but, could not find an external BMS I would trust. ๐Ÿ˜ž
Our experience boondocking with the BB Lithium is fantastic. The voltage stays very constant througout discharge and they provide up to 300 A if needed. Highest I have seen (microwave) is 140 amps to the inverter.

They seem like a solid company and all is assembled in the USA. :B

Housted


Hey Housted what converter is it you have that BB said was fine just curious, what is the charge rate? I am looking to upgrade myself and am doing some research on all of this.
TIA
2011 FORD F-150 FX4 CREW CAB ECO...
2018 Ford F-150 Max Tow Crew 6.5 3.5 Eco...
2013 Keystone Passport 2650BH, EQUAL-I-ZER 1K/10K

time2roll
Explorer II
Explorer II
OK and the storage spec is -35C. Even at -40 the battery would retain some of the average temperature. Or just bring it home for storage. Although at 100 pounds it might be a hassle.

For a few $$ more there is same with added heating element. Need power though.

pianotuna
Nomad II
Nomad II
time2roll wrote:
pianotuna wrote:
Hi,

I would buy this--except for the cold weather issues:

https://pacificsunsystems.com/catalog/product/12v-400ah-lithium-lifep04-battery/
Place them inside where it is warm.


Hi time2roll,

If I were full time, maybe. But as a part timer my storage requirements are -40.
Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, 556 amp-hours of Telcom jars, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.

time2roll
Explorer II
Explorer II
pianotuna wrote:
Hi,

I would buy this--except for the cold weather issues:

https://pacificsunsystems.com/catalog/product/12v-400ah-lithium-lifep04-battery/
Place them inside where it is warm.

BFL13
Explorer II
Explorer II
"In my mind, the ideal Lifepo4 charger would offer adjustable charge voltage (Like the PowerMax - but with a higher limit), and be a two stage design (though float is not necessary, nor harmful) so that the battery does not sit for an extended period while being held at maximum voltage..."

What limit is desired? It goes to 16.5v now.

It is adjustable single voltage (which does two battery "stages", bulk and absorption), but you want a charger end's two-stage.

Not sure how you can have a two-stage (at the charger) adjustable voltage that is automatic as seems to be desired here. You would need an adjustable timer to go with that, but that would need a trigger since you want the battery to get fully charged first and you don't know how long that will take.

The trigger would have to "see" that the battery is full somehow, and voltage can't be the trigger of course. However, it may be ok with Li batts, which start their absorption stages at a high SOC and you don't want them to be all the way full?
1. 1991 Oakland 28DB Class C
on Ford E350-460-7.5 Gas EFI
Photo in Profile
2. 1991 Bighorn 9.5ft Truck Camper on 2003 Chev 2500HD 6.0 Gas
See Profile for Electronic set-ups for 1. and 2.

ScottG
Nomad
Nomad
Since Trojan batteries are very popular here, I'm surprised I haven't heard more about their Trillium line on the forum. They seem to be great batteries and having a lithium battery with a strong brand name would certainly be a plus.

Housted
Explorer III
Explorer III
I just put 3 Battleborn 100 Ahr batteries in place of 400 Ahr of AGM.
I have 1050 watts of solar and after much consultation with BB my
converter is fine as is my solar controller, which is programable.
I was impressed with their construction and assembly methods.
I thought about making my own pack, but, could not find an external BMS I would trust. ๐Ÿ˜ž
Our experience boondocking with the BB Lithium is fantastic. The voltage stays very constant througout discharge and they provide up to 300 A if needed. Highest I have seen (microwave) is 140 amps to the inverter.

They seem like a solid company and all is assembled in the USA. :B

Housted
2019 Forrest River Forrester 3051S 2014 Honda CRV toad.
1000 W Solar, converted to 50 amp
400 Amps of LiFePO4,3000 Watt Inverter, Refer converted with JC refrigeration unit, Sofa replaced with 2 swivel chairs, over cab bed converted to TV mount and storage

Mobilesport
Explorer
Explorer
As for cold weather issues I live in extreme weather conditions both hot and cold , normally when it's cold it doesn't get really cold enough inside my van to mess with the lifepo4, on days when the temp really drops like 2 days ago we had negative 4 degrees Fahrenheit with a feels like temp of 35 below zero Fahrenheit I dial my heater to the lowest setting and it trickles heat toward the battery, some people put elect seat heaters with thermostat controls around there lifepo4 battery , no issues.

If you don't know anything about lifepo4 I would buy a single Battleborn 100ah lifepo4 or equivalent and play with that.
Instead of spending a bunch of time trying to figure out how to set up a cheap battery system just suck it up and pay for the one that is complete.
Then you have a system that works and you can tinker in your spare time learning how to build a cheap one , by the time the Battleborn wears out you will know how to build a cheap lifepo4 but for now just buy

@Mexicowanderer
Are you a boondocker?
What do you use to charge?
Alternator?
Solar panels?
Genset and 110 volt charger?

3_tons
Explorer
Explorer
The BMS System is not the same as a charge controller - in most cases it is designed to balance (or cut-out) individual cells, prevent (via disconnect) a damaging over or under voltage condition, over amperage condition, over temp, and in some cases preventing charging below say, 32dF (some mfgs, slightly less).

Iโ€™ve yet to find a charge controller with parameters to my liking, since the charge controller must be matched with a particular Lifepo4 manufacturerโ€™s specs. Progressive Dynamics Li charger remains at maximum voltage even after the battery is fully charged (??), while Iotaโ€™s charge voltage is a tenth a volt higher than some BMS will even allow entry...If using an existing charger, the equalization feature must be defeated...Then thereโ€™s the solar controllers!

In my mind, the ideal Lifepo4 charger would offer adjustable charge voltage (Like the PowerMax - but with a higher limit), and be a two stage design (though float is not necessary, nor harmful) so that the battery does not sit for an extended period while being held at maximum voltage...

Cheaper Lifepo4โ€™s can be found on Amazon, et al, but the โ€˜down in the dirtโ€™ specs will vary, particularly the surge amps and duration which can be a limitation on electric motor inrush needs...Some BMSโ€™s are more conservative this way, while a few others are a bit more tolerant. Some batteries of โ€™like kindโ€™ (i.e. 12v, 100 a/hr) are of cylindrical cell design, some prismatic, while the lower end offerings tend to be of a layered pillow design where cell consistency may not be as uniform...

Warranties vary widely as well... Just my 0.2 cents...