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 > How common are parks with "cheater" 50amp service?

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gbopp

The Keystone State

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Posted: 09/26/18 01:51pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

stevenal wrote:

TDIStan wrote:

The PEV is not towable -


Not even with a dolly?

Maybe trailering the EV an option? Or just get a toad that can be pulled 4 down.

CA Traveler

The Western States

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Posted: 09/26/18 01:57pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Chris Bryant wrote:

Ours has an electric range, so it has 2 50 amp cords, all electric.
Chris how do you manage your power? 2x50A site would be great, then 50A plus gen, then 30A plus gen?

Just curious.


2009 Holiday Rambler 42' Scepter with ISL 400 Cummins
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Bob


maillemaker

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Posted: 09/26/18 01:59pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Quote:

I doubt there are very many wired as you suggest. A bigger concern for you may be parks (ours included) that do not allow the charging of electric vehicles. RV park loops are not designed to handle both the load of the RVs and charging electric vehicles. We do not take a chance that the extra loads from charging electric vehicles would lead to either voltage drop across the entire loop or overloading the main to the point the main breakers trip.


I smell a business opportunity. Disallow EV charging in campsites but provide EV charging at charging stations, for a fee.

Quote:

You should be paying extra to charge your car. If not, charging your car will drive up camping fees overall, and frankly I am not interested in paying for your car. Like the politicians, get your hand out of my pocket!


It will happen. It's just that the times haven't caught up with the technology. Right now everyone gets "all you can eat" electricity at their campground as part of your site fees, because until now that has been a limited amount of power. Now that EVs are becoming a thing, this will likely change.

Quote:

Renewable power is not getting cheaper and in fact when added to the traditional power grid of nuclear and natural gas, all it does is drive up the cost to the consumer.


This is false.

Quote:

Globally, onshore wind schemes are now costing an average of $0.06 per kilowatt hour (kWh), although some schemes are coming in at $0.04 per KwH, while the cost of solar PV is down to $0.10 per KwH. In comparison, the cost of electricity generation based on fossil fuels typically falls in a range of $0.05 to $0.17 per KwH.

The figures are contained in IRENA's Renewable Power Generation Costs in 2017 report, which was released on January 13, the first day of the 8th IRENA Assembly in Abu Dhabi, the capital city of the UAE. The report predicts that solar costs will fall even further in the next few years, with a further halving of typical costs by 2020. That means onshore wind and solar PV projects could be consistently delivering electricity for as little as $0.03 per kWh within two years.

Adnan Amin, director-general of IRENA, says a significant shift is underway in the energy sector. “These cost declines across technologies are unprecendented and representative of the degree to which renewable energy is disrupting the global energy system,” he said.


https://www.forbes.com/sites/dominicdudley/2018/01/13/renewable-energy-cost-effective-fossil-fuels-2020/#308de78d4ff2

https://money.cnn.com/2018/09/14/investing/coal-power-natural-gas-renewable/index.html

Natural Gas is giving a shot in the arm to fossil fuels, but like all fossil fuels, there is a finite supply of it and it's only a matter of time before it starts getting too costly to produce.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Crude-Oil/The-Shale-Boom-Might-Not-Last-Long.html

And of course all of this ignores the pollution problem of burning things for energy, which many countries are now taking steps to combat.


1990 Winnebago Warrior. "She may not look like much but she's got it where it counts!"



dougrainer

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Posted: 09/26/18 02:15pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I have had numerous customers call me over the years with their OEM EMS systems, stating 30 amp service, when they are plugged into 50 amp service. That is because the CG has CHEATED 50 amp service and not correct phased 50 amp(100 amps total on 2- 50 amp breakers). ALWAYS, The CG says they are 50 amp service. The customer comes in and I plug into our 50 amp and show him the EMS shows 50 amp service. He then realized the CG either lied or did not understand 50 amp service. The flip side is, the customer calls me and I tell him how to check the CG 50 amp plug for 50 amp service and it is ALWAYS cheated 50 amp. For any CG to advertise 50 amp hook ups and CHARGE for 50 amp hook ups and NOT supply a total of 100 amp supply is fraud. Doug

PS, yes it is common, but unless you have a 50 amp built in EMS or check it yourself, most people would never have a clue. It is usually older CG's that would cost them tens of thousands of dollars to correctly upgrade to safe 50 amp service

Chris Bryant

Arden, North Carolina

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Posted: 09/26/18 02:19pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

CA Traveler wrote:

Chris Bryant wrote:

Ours has an electric range, so it has 2 50 amp cords, all electric.
Chris how do you manage your power? 2x50A site would be great, then 50A plus gen, then 30A plus gen?

Just curious.


It's a Park model, 12x45 in a resort park. Sold it to friends last year, we never got to go over to it in Sarasota.


-- Chris Bryant
My RV Service Blog
The RV.net Blog

IB853347201

Eastern Ontario

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Posted: 09/26/18 02:43pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

maillemaker wrote:


Quote:

Renewable power is not getting cheaper and in fact when added to the traditional power grid of nuclear and natural gas, all it does is drive up the cost to the consumer.


This is false.

Quote:

Globally, onshore wind schemes are now costing an average of $0.06 per kilowatt hour (kWh), although some schemes are coming in at $0.04 per KwH, while the cost of solar PV is down to $0.10 per KwH. In comparison, the cost of electricity generation based on fossil fuels typically falls in a range of $0.05 to $0.17 per KwH.

The figures are contained in IRENA's Renewable Power Generation Costs in 2017 report, which was released on January 13, the first day of the 8th IRENA Assembly in Abu Dhabi, the capital city of the UAE. The report predicts that solar costs will fall even further in the next few years, with a further halving of typical costs by 2020. That means onshore wind and solar PV projects could be consistently delivering electricity for as little as $0.03 per kWh within two years.

Adnan Amin, director-general of IRENA, says a significant shift is underway in the energy sector. “These cost declines across technologies are unprecendented and representative of the degree to which renewable energy is disrupting the global energy system,” he said.


Again, I applaud your optimism and additional resolve to find so many articles to support your position. I, on the other hand will defer to my original position based on real life experience (you know paying bills and such) over the last 5 years that renewable power is not getting cheaper and in fact when added to the traditional power grid of nuclear and natural gas it drives up the cost to the consumer. So much so that here in Ontario the cost of electricity increased by over 50%! As a result of this boondoggle we just threw that govt out of office.

Anyhow, thanks for this however I do not wish to debate this any further and will leave it here. I appreciate that everyone has their own take on this issue. Just glad to hear that you are willing to pay extra to charge your car.

westernrvparkowner

montana

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Posted: 09/26/18 02:59pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

dougrainer wrote:

I have had numerous customers call me over the years with their OEM EMS systems, stating 30 amp service, when they are plugged into 50 amp service. That is because the CG has CHEATED 50 amp service and not correct phased 50 amp(100 amps total on 2- 50 amp breakers). ALWAYS, The CG says they are 50 amp service. The customer comes in and I plug into our 50 amp and show him the EMS shows 50 amp service. He then realized the CG either lied or did not understand 50 amp service. The flip side is, the customer calls me and I tell him how to check the CG 50 amp plug for 50 amp service and it is ALWAYS cheated 50 amp. For any CG to advertise 50 amp hook ups and CHARGE for 50 amp hook ups and NOT supply a total of 100 amp supply is fraud. Doug

PS, yes it is common, but unless you have a 50 amp built in EMS or check it yourself, most people would never have a clue. It is usually older CG's that would cost them tens of thousands of dollars to correctly upgrade to safe 50 amp service
My research indicates cheated 50 amp service occurs on a percentage exactly equal to the percentage of crooked RV repair people. However, I could be wrong, because these forums sure have a lot more complaints about incompetent repairs then they do about RV parks with cheated 50 amp service. Seems like you would be much more likely to find fraudulent RV service than you are likely to find fraudulent 50 amp services in a RV Park.

mr-moe

Ontario

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Posted: 09/26/18 03:25pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Ouch

Gdetrailer

PA

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Posted: 09/26/18 04:17pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

maillemaker wrote:


Quote:

Renewable power is not getting cheaper and in fact when added to the traditional power grid of nuclear and natural gas, all it does is drive up the cost to the consumer.


This is false.

Quote:

Globally, onshore wind schemes are now costing an average of $0.06 per kilowatt hour (kWh), although some schemes are coming in at $0.04 per KwH, while the cost of solar PV is down to $0.10 per KwH. In comparison, the cost of electricity generation based on fossil fuels typically falls in a range of $0.05 to $0.17 per KwH.


Natural Gas is giving a shot in the arm to fossil fuels, but like all fossil fuels, there is a finite supply of it and it's only a matter of time before it starts getting too costly to produce.

And of course all of this ignores the pollution problem of burning things for energy, which many countries are now taking steps to combat.


"Renewable energy" IS NOT "getting cheaper", in fact it IS the most expensive way to get "energy" by far. It is ALSO the DIRTIEST way to get power when you take into consideration how solar cells are made and all of the leftover hazardous byproducts that must be disposed of.. It IS the "white elephant" in the room that all the pro renewable folks love to ignore..

Wind power also uses considerable amounts of highly hazardous chemicals and materials, fiberglass and resin specifically, the resin uses MEK as a catalyst which is neither human friendly or environmentally friendly.

And by the way, the energy "generation" cost is a SMALL PART of an electric bill, my local electric company charges a mere $0.05 per Khwr but add in all of the OTHER fees plus local state and federal charges and I pay an average of $0.11 per Kwhr.. I consider myself lucky, have a Brother that lives only 5 miles from me and he is on an electric "Co op" (brought to you by the "REA") and he pays nearly double what I pay per Kwhr!

Renewable folks tend to "forget" about all of the fees and taxes tacked onto an electric bill. In my case, many of those "fees" go up considerably the more power I consume.

Additionally, some electric companies also vary rates higher during PEAK time (daytime) and lower during night time.

By the way, use TOO MUCH power and the electric companies CAN charge you at COMMERCIAL RATES which IS considerably HIGHER than residential rates.

And all of your links, nothing but SCARE tactics..

The shale boom is not going away any time soon, it has "slowed" some, but it IS here to stay and by the way, even the old fashion "conventional" oil and gas wells are STILL doing fine.. There are still many wells dating back to the 1890s and earlier still producing.

Over the years, there has been some scientists which have changed their views to that the Earth IS still forming crude oil and natural gas.

wa8yxm

Wherever I happen to park

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Posted: 09/26/18 04:52pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

fj12ryder wrote:

How can you tell short of checking the power outlet with a VOM? Will it show up using a EMS?

Will you have to rent a separate site to charge your EV? That could get expensive.


EMS is a multiple meaning Acronym
A progressive Dynamics EMS. I do not think so
An Intelletec EMS will show 30 amps on a cheater site.

Note that these are two ENTIRELY different devices which perform different jobs .

I used to have (Still do somewhere) a Neon tester that would do it.

but if I wished. . I could put together a simple indicator consisting of a Resistor (I'd have to work out the value) and a simple Neon Lamp (NE-2) you hook it to the two MAIN breakers or two branch breakers on different branches in the RV. if it's lights. Genuine 50 amp. if not cheater site.

Same test the Intelletec uses in fact.


Home is where I park it.
Kenwood TS-2000 housed in a 2005 Damon Intruder 377


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