charging of 2 camper batteries with truck alternator?

[Frank_Mehaffey]

I have a 2013 Livin Lite 10' TC with 2 deep cycle batteries installed. I'm confused and/or confounded by the posts in different forums about charging the camper batteries with the tow vehicle.

The vehicle is a 2012 F250 with the camper package. I have 14.13 v coming out of the 7 pin receiver at the bumper. My camper has a PD 4000 Power Control Center which has a micro processor to provide 3 different charging levels. Boost for 14.4 v if the battery is low, 13.6 v for normal charging, and 13.2 if it is in storage.

At this time, we have no need for a generator with the appliances we use. We did have the original (1) camper battery poop out after about 8 hours of the furnace fan, in a 10 degree overnight truck stop while on the road. The next night, I left the truck on until midnight, which worked out fine. When we got home, I installed a second deep cycle battery, and it has provided more than enough power for the fan overnight for almost 2 nights. All our lights are LED's.

I have a 150 v alternator in the 250, and was wondering how long it takes for the truck electrical system to recharge the 2 batteries I have installed in the TC, and if I should have my dealer install a heavier gage wire from the truck camper plug to the PD4000 and if I should have someone check the wire from the charger relay in the truck to the plug in the back, to make sure it is heavy enough.

For the last 3 years, everything works fine, but I have been reading up on power/charging systems, and how the truck alternator should not be used to recharge depleted camper batteries. If we do some primitive camping in the future, I would like not to need a portable Honda to recharge the TC batteries, but just run the truck for the time necessary to recharge. I have a battery meter installed in the camper, so I know what I have in the batteries.

I am looking for advice on the advisability of charging the tc batteries while on the road or at a primitive campsite with the truck charging system exclusively. Or do I need a beefed up charging system. Some forums said to run jumpers from the truck battery to the camper battery. That sounds kinda strange to me, but that is why I am asking.

[deltabravo]

Frank Mehaffey wrote:
I have a 2013 Livin Lite 10' TC with 2 deep cycle batteries installed. I'm confused and/or confounded by the posts in different forums about charging the camper batteries with the tow vehicle.

This is how I do it.

[free_radical]

Interesting dilema..
Wouldnt instaling a second alternator charging only camper bateries be a simplest solution??

[time2roll]

Kinda like not being able to fill your pool until the city discloses the water supply pressure.

[Kayteg1]

I monitor smart charging on my Mercedes sedan, who has ECO stops and don't see it as very smart.
It gives bulk charge at 14.5V for few minutes after morning start, what helps in engine warming, but 14.5V is killer voltage and the batteries who last in older models in excess of 10 years, seldom last for 5 in "smart" cars.
First time I heard about the system, I assume it does regenerative charge during braking. That does not happen as I often seen no charge (12.5v) on braking and then high charging (13.8v) on acceleration.
Ford plays with their system while not notifying customers about it.
Took me long time to figure out why my 6l Powerstroke was killing dual batteries after couple of drives on my yard. Later I learn on forum, that Ford glow plugs could not hold high charging voltage, so Ford made a program that would not activate alternator for several minutes till GP were no longer working.
So unaware owners were killing the batteries on short drives and Ford did not feel like making a note in manual about it.
I have 2017 Ford with dual alternators. Did not monitor it closely but I doubt it has smart charging. I opted for electric cabin heater, who draws over 100 amp right after engine start, so there is not much margin for smart charging.

[CA_Traveler]

Smart charging systems which are increasingly common on vehicles are designed to reduce emissions and increase fuel mileage. One effect of this is that they don't fully charge the battery. ie 12.4V may be considered completely adequate for starting the next time for example. Different battery types are being used to provide good performance and service life with the partial charge for starting.

And they are definitely not designed to charge auxiliary batteries. So don't expect that your camper battery will be fully charged or even hardly charged when you stop for the day.

One owner solution is to install a DC to DC charger that boosts the voltage and applies the correct multi stage charging algorithms based on the auxiliary battery type independent of the main battery type and charging.

[time2roll]

OK and still you should have the basic amp rating of the alternator. I am sure it is plenty to drive that 20 amp DC-DC boost charger.

The alternator voltage will depend on time, temperature, rpm etc with the algorithm buried in the main computer. Probably considered proprietary information and not even available to the help desk.

[Frank_Mehaffey]

Ford won't even commit to printing the alternator output in volts or amps. And they won't say what the charging module's output is, or what it does, and if it is heavy duty enough to do what it is sold as being capable of. What is the point of having a camper option, which has no rated capacity to charge a camper? I do have a heavy duty alternator in my truck as an option.

As for not knowing what I expect, I have stated several times in this posts topic, what I wanted to know. I certainly don't think that having a question not answered is understandable. If they can't answer because of legal implications, then they could JUST SAY THAT. When you don't get any answer, and you are a customer of any product, if you are satisfied with that lack of concern when your company probably spend millions on a consumer response department that does not respond to a question, not a complaint, what do you do?

When the whole 80's quality control of a certain car company infuriated owners by refusing to repair or honor warranties, consumer protection laws or lemon laws saw a massive uptick. I am not asking for a lot, or complaining about the product, I just wanted to know what the specs were of what they built.

[time2roll]

Not sure what you expect from Ford, GM or RAM. They will give you the alternator output rating and you can check the 7-pin charge line fuse rating.

You are basically plugging in a custom accessory that you need to engineer to your own specifications. If you need more power than the alternator rating you need to order the HD or dual alternator. Or if you want more power than the 7-pin connector allows you need to pull your own wire. No manufacturer is going to custom make a charging system for an RV.

[Grit_dog]

Bottom line, run a heavy gauge, fused set of leads off of the truck battery, through a charging relay if you want automatic protection from discharging the truck batteries while plugged in and engine off, to a winch plug type plug in, to the camper batteries.

This is literally done every day to 1000s of new trucks that run aftermarket electrical loads.
If you need verification, take it to any upfitter business and either ask them or pay them to do it.
Yes charging rates on new trucks are now controlled through the ecm or bcm or some other m, but if your truck batteries are sucking juice, the “m” is allowing charging voltage to them. Period.

[Photomike]

It is understandable that you would not hear back as no manufacturer wants to comment on anything outside of the ordinary use of a vehicle in case something bad should happen.

Even basic changes like replacing a radio is no longer a simple change with today's vehicles. I have asked easy questions like switching tires or adding driving lights and have been told "we do not recommend changing anything from the manufacturers specs".

Good luck on getting any commitment from any company today, the lawyers have made it clear they cannot reply.

[Frank_Mehaffey]

Well, I said that I would contact Ford, which I have done at least 5 times with emails and with telephone calls. I was contacted about a month ago by someone who told me that I had a "case number" about my charging questions, and that someone would get in touch with me in the next 2 days. And that person was in the electrical division of Ford, and would answer my questions.

More than a few people have said that I was probably not going to hear from Ford. I did, but with no specific information forthcoming from my requests. Most of the replies to my original post on this site, have been variations on a theme, in the different ways to bypass the 7 pin 12 volt connection, and when the weather is warmer, I will select one of them, and purchase the necessary parts and smart charger to more confidently charge from my truck alternator.

For the first time in almost 20 years, I have been absolutely disgusted with my contact with FMC customer relations over this issue. Not my local dealer, or the product which I have purchased 3 times since 1999. But with the disregard over management not giving information to owners of Ford Super Duty products. We will be purchasing a new 350 4WD super cab, probably in 1-2 years, and I will be considering GM and Ram for the first time. But I will not buy one, from any of the 3 manufacturers who will not tell me, or offer to show me, the charging capability of their truck for a camper. ENOUGH of the treatment of customers who spend a kazillion dollars on a tow vehicle or truck for their TC. This has been a real learning experience for me, and I am not really mad, just very disappointed in Ford.

Thank you to everyone who has read my op, and made constructive and informative suggestions and given their experience.

[S_Davis]

Well my 2013 chev 2500HD does not have this "smart charging" you are talking about, it charges at the same voltage no matter how you draw down the batteries. So I am kinda at a loss how you can tell everyone that it will not work because of smart charging when you don't even know if or who uses it.

[Downwindtracke1]

I had a '91 Jeep Cherokee, and the regulator function was part of the ECU. It made up grades over the older Delco alternator tricky,as my son found out on his '89. Delcos didn't 4x4 well. My wife had a later Cherokee that overheated. We did the new rad, water pump, head gasket, etc. It still did it. Looking back on it, the culprit was likely the ECU or the wires or the sensors.

[theoldwizard1]

S Davis wrote:

So what truck manufacturers are using these "smart" charging systems in a 3/4 or 1 ton?

I don't have proof, but I would say ALL of them ! I don't know who else makes Class A chassis, but the Ford F53 uses it also.

Like I said before, smart charging make a measurable difference in fuel economy. Maybe only 1/2 - 1 MPG, but it is measurable. With the Ford F53, it is easier to "leave it in" than it is to "take it out" because without the logic in the PCM, the alternator regulator would have to be changed.

Exactly when it showed up differs between manufactures and even between models from the same manufacturer.