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Sub-freezing Weather UPDATE --- We froze the pipes!

whizbang
Explorer
Explorer
Per everybody's suggestions, we started the empty holding tanks with a couple gallons of anti-freeze, then waited until they were real full before dumping. It worked great!

The problem was the bathroom pipes.

The walls, floors, and cabinets with the bathroom pipes are in the back rear of the RV. They are completely sealed and unheated. There is a heat duct in the bathroom, but zero heat in the plumbing enclosure.

We dodged around western Montana and managed to camp no colder than 30 degrees F. We also had the good sense to unplug the electric space heater and run the furnace so the duct put out heat. No help.

The toilet line froze. The bathroom sink had almost froze thru when I turned it on and cleared it with warm water. I suspect the shower froze (but when we got around to showering, it was warm enough that water ran. However, the shower P-trap froze and it wasn't until my wife shower filled the pan with warm water that the p trap thawed and flowed.

Our leak appears to be the screw on hose connection for fresh water. It was on its last legs and I have a replacement part on hand at home. I think the cold weather pushed the spring loaded seal to its end of life.

I am still going to install holding tank heaters and blankets.

I am also going to install a new supply connection and shower faucet, and, when I do so, wrap the lines with pipe insulation as much possible.

Additionally, I am going to "Y" one of the rear furnace ducts and route it into the plumbing enclosure to warm the pipes.

My cold weather plumbing problem wasn't where I expected it to be. Go figure.
Whizbang
2002 Winnebago Minnie
http://www.raincityhome.com/RAWH/index.htm
25 REPLIES 25

pianotuna
Nomad II
Nomad II
According to Bob, it was from the cold. The trailer had not been moved--but when the temperature got to low the fridge ceased working. When it warmed back up, it was still not working.

memtb wrote:
pianotuna, Do you think that the โ€œpluggageโ€ was a product of the cold, or from periodic usage of the refrigerator while not properly leveled!
Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, 556 amp-hours of Telcom jars, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.

memtb
Explorer
Explorer
pianotuna, Do you think that the โ€œpluggageโ€ was a product of the cold, or from periodic usage of the refrigerator while not properly leveled! And perhaps, just showed-up during cold weather use. I have no knowledge of the exact physics of the ammonia based refrigeration system....just curious !
Todd & Marianne
Miniature Schnauzer's - Sundai, Nellie & Maggie Mae
2007 Dodge Ram 3500, 6.7 Cummins, 6 speed manual, 3.73 ratio, 4x4
2004 Teton Grand Freedom, 39'
2007 Bigfoot 30MH26Sl

pianotuna
Nomad II
Nomad II
Hi,

Cold can cause a permanent blockage. If you get lucky then it may be possible to dislodge the clog. I'd say an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Bob's Your Uncle had to remove the fridge and "roll" it over several times. He got lucky and the fridge worked after he did that.
Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, 556 amp-hours of Telcom jars, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.

SDcampowneroper
Explorer
Explorer
time2roll wrote:
pianotuna wrote:
You will need to protect the fridge.
Can the cold actually damage the fridge or does it just stop working while it is cold?
Is there a standard range of operating temperature?
cold wont hurt it, it just wont cool . You need to close off the lower vents some or all to maintain an above freezing to 100degree f temp on the back outside of the fridge.
You will find the vent , a large rectangular pane outside. Somehow close the airflow either with a plastic bag held inside the vent, by the vent, or my fav and choice is foam pipe insul. cut and tucked in to the grille. You can add or remove a piece as the weather changes.

memtb
Explorer
Explorer
I donโ€™t think it will hurt it....just โ€œnotโ€ enough heat to โ€œboilโ€
the ammonia solution .
Todd & Marianne
Miniature Schnauzer's - Sundai, Nellie & Maggie Mae
2007 Dodge Ram 3500, 6.7 Cummins, 6 speed manual, 3.73 ratio, 4x4
2004 Teton Grand Freedom, 39'
2007 Bigfoot 30MH26Sl

time2roll
Explorer II
Explorer II
pianotuna wrote:
You will need to protect the fridge.
Can the cold actually damage the fridge or does it just stop working while it is cold?
Is there a standard range of operating temperature?

memtb
Explorer
Explorer
pianotuna wrote:
memtb,

You will need to protect the fridge.



We havenโ€™t yet.....but, thereโ€™ always the first time! But.....we have very limited experience with the class c.

Itโ€™s never, โ€œ knock on woodโ€, been an issue with our 5th wheel (s).
Todd & Marianne
Miniature Schnauzer's - Sundai, Nellie & Maggie Mae
2007 Dodge Ram 3500, 6.7 Cummins, 6 speed manual, 3.73 ratio, 4x4
2004 Teton Grand Freedom, 39'
2007 Bigfoot 30MH26Sl

pianotuna
Nomad II
Nomad II
memtb,

You will need to protect the fridge.
Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, 556 amp-hours of Telcom jars, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.

pnichols
Explorer II
Explorer II
GordonThree wrote:
pnichols wrote:
pianotuna wrote:
Add Moving Sue and PhotoMike to that shortlist. I believe they did it with no shore power as well.


That'll separate out the men from the boys -> drycamping for a few days in single/low-double digit nighttime temperatures.

That's gotta take huge battery banks, large propane tanks, and a good generator system. I'd like to read some detailed write-ups on how folks do this "real RV'ing".

Cutting the cord is what camping is supposed to be. I guess some hunters get pretty good at this kind of camping ... though tents don't count in RV forums.


You make it sound like an Antarctic expedition... it surely is not.

Common sense and a little prep work is all that's needed, you don't need huge propane tanks or a military grade generator system. You do need enough fuel to sustain the burn rate your comfort requires.

Keeping person and equipment warm takes energy, and energy costs money. Winter RV'ing is not a frugal endeavour although I'm sure many will disagree.


Well ... I'll bet it's way less than an Antarctic expedition the bigger the RV is.

A big RV allows one to carry a lot of stuff to fight the cold. A small RV is where the challenge probably is greatest.

We're not afraid of generators so we carry along a couple. We can heat everything with the propane furnace and tank heaters or in an emergency, heat just us with either generator or the cab heater via idling the V10.
2005 E450 Itasca 24V Class C

memtb
Explorer
Explorer
Itโ€™s much easier, if the RV was designed for sub zero F temperatures.

Weโ€™ve not had our class c out in temperatures, colder than single digits. We hope to do some short (2 to 4 days) boondocking trips this winter ....ice fishing trips. We will have water in the RV....and hope to be good to a minus 20 F. The only special provision that weโ€™ve done, was to put an insulated divider between the RV body and the โ€œtotally uninsulatedโ€ van portion of the unit.

Hope to add 4 solar panels/ charge controller (already purchased), an inverter and an additional battery or two. That should make boondocking, more pleasurable !

We boondock for several weeks (all systems fully operational) at a time, in near zero to below zero nighttime temperatures in our 5er. But, itโ€™s a little better suited for long term winter boondocking!
Todd & Marianne
Miniature Schnauzer's - Sundai, Nellie & Maggie Mae
2007 Dodge Ram 3500, 6.7 Cummins, 6 speed manual, 3.73 ratio, 4x4
2004 Teton Grand Freedom, 39'
2007 Bigfoot 30MH26Sl

GordonThree
Explorer
Explorer
pnichols wrote:
pianotuna wrote:
Add Moving Sue and PhotoMike to that shortlist. I believe they did it with no shore power as well.


That'll separate out the men from the boys -> drycamping for a few days in single/low-double digit nighttime temperatures.

That's gotta take huge battery banks, large propane tanks, and a good generator system. I'd like to read some detailed write-ups on how folks do this "real RV'ing".

Cutting the cord is what camping is supposed to be. I guess some hunters get pretty good at this kind of camping ... though tents don't count in RV forums.


You make it sound like an Antarctic expedition... it surely is not.

Common sense and a little prep work is all that's needed, you don't need huge propane tanks or a military grade generator system. You do need enough fuel to sustain the burn rate your comfort requires.

Keeping person and equipment warm takes energy, and energy costs money. Winter RV'ing is not a frugal endeavour although I'm sure many will disagree.
2013 KZ Sportsmen Classic 200, 20 ft TT
2020 RAM 1500, 5.7 4x4, 8 speed

pnichols
Explorer II
Explorer II
pianotuna wrote:
Add Moving Sue and PhotoMike to that shortlist. I believe they did it with no shore power as well.


That'll separate out the men from the boys -> drycamping for a few days in single/low-double digit nighttime temperatures.

That's gotta take huge battery banks, large propane tanks, and a good generator system. I'd like to read some detailed write-ups on how folks do this "real RV'ing".

Cutting the cord is what camping is supposed to be. I guess some hunters get pretty good at this kind of camping ... though tents don't count in RV forums.
2005 E450 Itasca 24V Class C

Photomike
Explorer III
Explorer III
How often do you camp in freezing temps? Also what are the usual cold temps you are in? There is a lot that you can do but what you did this trip may be enough to deal with the once or twice a lifetime of hitting those temps if that is all it is.

I have found that with all the tweaking that I have done over the years that for the real cold it is easier to just dump tanks and use antifreeze to flush the toilet.
2017 Ford Transit
EVO Electric bike
Advanced Elements Kayaks

whizbang
Explorer
Explorer
Great suggestions.

After I posted, I reconsidered whether it makes sense to heat wrap the pipes rather than insulate.

I thought of putting the vents ron suggested in several locations in hopes that the room air would be enough. I think I will Y the duct and add a vent or two for flow thru.

I have some serious engineering and tinkering ahead of me this winter.

Thanks everybody!
Whizbang
2002 Winnebago Minnie
http://www.raincityhome.com/RAWH/index.htm