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Differences between models with same floorplan?

audiodane
Explorer
Explorer
Hey folks... new here (and most anywhere camper related)...

Long story short, we recently upgraded our TV (2014 Expy EL 3.73 ratio w/ HD Tow pkg), and are looking at our first camper. DOing all the math, went to a CAT scale today, yadda yadda...

After looking at over 150 different model floorplans over the past two months, I'm noticing some trends. ๐Ÿ™‚ Namely, that even within the same major manufacturer (e.g. forest river), multiple sub-brands have identical floorplans -- but with vastly different weights. It's this last part that confuses me.

I have been trying to figure out, for instance, "what is the difference between a Forest River Alpha Wolf and a Forest River Grey Wolf?" (ex, AW 26DBH-L and GW 26DBH) .... I mean, for all intents and purposes, they are the exact same floorplan. SUre maybe one has a door and the other has a curtain...

But, for example, is there anywhere that captures the following type of information:

- In general, model xyz is lighter than the same floorplan in other brands/models

- In general, model abc is more quieter (and maybe heavier?) than the same floorplan in other brands/models

- In general, model def is _______ compared to the same floorplan in other brands/models.

I am sure the manufacturers would dislike being so over-generalized. Yet, at the same time, they all most likely try to fit certain niches. I just can't find any information that tends to summarize those niches..

Any thoughts?

cheers,
..dane
2018 Ram 3500 CC SB 4x4 SRW
22 REPLIES 22

tatest
Explorer II
Explorer II
Some floor plans are popular across several manufacturers and brands within manufacturers, but will be different in weight and quality depending on the marketing goals. The goals that vary might be intended price point, what seasons the RV will be usable, and weight targets. The differences in the trailers can be type of construction, capacity of frames, weights of materials, quality of materials, choice and quality of fittings. For example, an "ultralite" might have 1-inch walls instead of 2-inch walls, and every other material in the construction is thinner or lighter weight, even though construction method is the same.

Then, there is the case where 2 or 3 brands or model lines are just non-identical twins, done with different names and decals.

The best source of where the manufacturer tries to place a product, how it is built, why it might be special, is probably the sales materials (brochures and web sites) although some manufacturers are better about this than others.

With a full-size SUV which tends to limit tongue weights, you are probably looking for lighter weights, and manufacturers will definitely advertise that.
Tom Test
Itasca Spirit 29B

bikendan
Explorer
Explorer
audiodane wrote:
bikendan wrote:

first, finding a used Northwood or Outdoors RV product east of the Rockies will not be easy.
second, Riverstone has only been around for 2-3 years and never made a TT, just 5th wheels.
third, doubt if Cedar Creek ever made TT's. if they did, it's been many years ago.
fourth, PrimeTime is owned by FR also. i own one and love it. it offered a lot of things found on more expensive TTs.

have you actually looked at any of the brands in your list?

out of your list, i would put Grand Design at the top.


Thnks @bikendan,

Thanks for your feedback! To answer your question, I have been researching for the better part of several of the last few months. We have walked trhough a few dozen models (none listed above), and have looked online at well over 200 (and seeing the similarities now).

This thread started when I started learning the general consensus that "the best TT's are marginally less crummy than the worst." That was somewhat (okay, a lot) discouraging. We don't really care about new vs used, so my current thinking is if there are better quality brands out there, then we have no problem waiting for an older-model but higher quality TT. That's what my list above of about 4-5 models is all about... Identifying the floorplans that work for us across several higher quality (hopefully) brands.

How has your PrimeTIme been quality-wise? Better, worse, or on-par with the the fix-or-repair-every-trip that I hear about with some other FR brands?

cheers,
..dane


well, the PT is my second FR product and both were very good quality.
since both were ultralights, you have to accept that some stuff will be less sturdy.
both had issues but were fixed during the warranty. i sold my Rockwood Roo after 10 years of ownership. the buyer thought the interior looked almost brand new.
All brands of RVs have good and bad ones, not just FR. and remember Thor Ind. and FR are the two biggest RV corporations and have many divisions. they have a multitude of factories in different areas of the country.
i go by my own opinion of which brand has good quality or not, NOT by internet opinions.
Dan- Firefighter, Retired:C, Shawn- Musician/Entrepreneur:W, Zoe- Faithful Golden Retriever(RIP:(), 2014 Ford F150 3.5 EcoboostMax Tow pkg, 2016 PrimeTime TracerAIR 255 w/4pt Equalizer and 5 Mtn. bikes and 2 Road bikes

Veebyes
Explorer II
Explorer II
Some builders will have 2 fit out levels of the same floorplan. We have owned both from one, the now defunct Western RV, former builders of Alpenlite.

First we had a 34RLR Ltd, lost in a blowover, replaced with a 34RLR.

The Ltd. had all of the goodies such as 6X6V batterys with an auto filling system, a 2000W inverter charger, solar panel, ceiling fan, mood lighting, remote control heaters, fireplace, convection microwave, high quality stove, really nice rocker recliners etc. etc.

The 34RLR, or the blue collar version as I call it, does not have any of the upgrades however the important stuff like tankage is the same.
Boat: 32' 1996 Albin 32+2, single Cummins 315hp
40+ night per year overnighter

2007 Alpenlite 34RLR
2006 Chevy 3500 LT, CC,LB 6.6L Diesel

Ham Radio: VP9KL, IRLP node 7995

audiodane
Explorer
Explorer
bikendan wrote:

first, finding a used Northwood or Outdoors RV product east of the Rockies will not be easy.
second, Riverstone has only been around for 2-3 years and never made a TT, just 5th wheels.
third, doubt if Cedar Creek ever made TT's. if they did, it's been many years ago.
fourth, PrimeTime is owned by FR also. i own one and love it. it offered a lot of things found on more expensive TTs.

have you actually looked at any of the brands in your list?

out of your list, i would put Grand Design at the top.


Thnks @bikendan,

Thanks for your feedback! To answer your question, I have been researching for the better part of several of the last few months. We have walked trhough a few dozen models (none listed above), and have looked online at well over 200 (and seeing the similarities now).

This thread started when I started learning the general consensus that "the best TT's are marginally less crummy than the worst." That was somewhat (okay, a lot) discouraging. We don't really care about new vs used, so my current thinking is if there are better quality brands out there, then we have no problem waiting for an older-model but higher quality TT. That's what my list above of about 4-5 models is all about... Identifying the floorplans that work for us across several higher quality (hopefully) brands.

How has your PrimeTIme been quality-wise? Better, worse, or on-par with the the fix-or-repair-every-trip that I hear about with some other FR brands?

cheers,
..dane
2018 Ram 3500 CC SB 4x4 SRW

bikendan
Explorer
Explorer
audiodane wrote:

Possibles:
- Northwood Nash 29S: really great floorplan! but 32.5' (getting kinda long)
- OutdoorsRV Black Rock 23BKS: great length! but no couch
- ~2010'ish KZ Spree 289KS: wow, quad bunkhouse under 31'!
- Grand Designs Imagine 2800BH: serious axle ratings, deep slideout

Nope:
- Riverstone Legacy: turns out this is a F.R. brand; unless they were independant early on (couldn't find any news whether or not they were aquired though)
- DRV: no bumper pull models available
- Cedar Creek (also F.R. owned... or at least is now?)
- New Horizons: no bumper pull models available
- Camplite: too small (need to sleep ~6-8)
- Casita: too small (need to sleep ~6-8)
- Oliver: too small (need to sleep ~6-8)
- Lance: too small (need to sleep ~6-8)

Dunno?
- Keystone: any good?
- PrimeTime: any good? (Tracer 274BH)


cheers,
..dane


first, finding a used Northwood or Outdoors RV product east of the Rockies will not be easy.
second, Riverstone has only been around for 2-3 years and never made a TT, just 5th wheels.
third, doubt if Cedar Creek ever made TT's. if they did, it's been many years ago.
fourth, PrimeTime is owned by FR also. i own one and love it. it offered a lot of things found on more expensive TTs.

have you actually looked at any of the brands in your list?

out of your list, i would put Grand Design at the top.
Dan- Firefighter, Retired:C, Shawn- Musician/Entrepreneur:W, Zoe- Faithful Golden Retriever(RIP:(), 2014 Ford F150 3.5 EcoboostMax Tow pkg, 2016 PrimeTime TracerAIR 255 w/4pt Equalizer and 5 Mtn. bikes and 2 Road bikes

audiodane
Explorer
Explorer
Thanks for the continued feedback, everyone.

I watched the Jayco video... WOW those guys are running around like headless chickens. No wonder things aren't held together well.. In comparison I watched either a Northwood or OutdoorsRV video. They were certainly taking time to align things and screw them in .. way to go!

We are absolutely happy buying used... I think I even prefer it. Even up to 8-10yrs old is fine, if the quality is there!

What kind of other older models should we be looking at? Looking for bumper-pull, GTWR around 8500lbs, looking to stay under 7000lbs unloaded..

Here's what I've found so far based on recommendations:

Possibles:
- Northwood Nash 29S: really great floorplan! but 32.5' (getting kinda long)
- OutdoorsRV Black Rock 23BKS: great length! but no couch
- OutdoorsRV Timber Ridge 27BHS: similar to Nash
- ~2010'ish KZ Spree 289KS: wow, quad bunkhouse under 31'!
- Grand Designs Imagine 2800BH: serious axle ratings, deep slideout

Nope:
- Riverstone Legacy: turns out this is a F.R. brand; unless they were independant early on (couldn't find any news whether or not they were aquired though)
- DRV: no bumper pull models available
- Cedar Creek (also F.R. owned... or at least is now?)
- New Horizons: no bumper pull models available
- Camplite: too small (need to sleep ~6-8)
- Casita: too small (need to sleep ~6-8)
- Oliver: too small (need to sleep ~6-8)
- Lance: too small (need to sleep ~6-8)

Dunno?
- Keystone: any good?
- PrimeTime: any good? (Tracer 274BH)


cheers,
..dane
2018 Ram 3500 CC SB 4x4 SRW

drsteve
Explorer
Explorer
Stick and tin is wooden frame with aluminum siding. It's your traditional travel trailer construction method. Roofs are all rubber these days.
2006 Silverado 1500HD Crew Cab 2WD 6.0L 3.73 8600 GVWR
2018 Coachmen Catalina Legacy Edition 223RBS
1991 Palomino Filly PUP

2gypsies1
Explorer
Explorer
You're looking at entry level RVs so you won't find any fiberglass. The roof will be rubber. For info: booth dinette's can be very uncomfortable for long sitting such as watching t.v.
Full-Timed for 16 Years
.... Back in S&B Again
Traveled 8 yr in a 40' 2004 Newmar Dutch Star Motorhome
& 8 yr in a 33' Travel Supreme 5th Wheel

goducks10
Explorer
Explorer
Just look at Outdoors RV or Northwood MFG. No guessing games. Both sites have videos showing construction. In house built frames. Built in the PNW for the PNW climate.

bikendan
Explorer
Explorer
mobeewan wrote:
Looking at the trailers on Forrest Rivers web site it looks like the Alpha Wolf is a higher end level of trailer. One of the features mentioned is an extreme weather package meaning it is probably a 4 season trailer with a winter package of some sort.


Forest River doesn't make any true "4 season" trailers. 3 season at best.
very few RV manufacturers make true 4 season RVs. Northwood Mfg., makers of Arctic Fox, being one of them.
Dan- Firefighter, Retired:C, Shawn- Musician/Entrepreneur:W, Zoe- Faithful Golden Retriever(RIP:(), 2014 Ford F150 3.5 EcoboostMax Tow pkg, 2016 PrimeTime TracerAIR 255 w/4pt Equalizer and 5 Mtn. bikes and 2 Road bikes

audiodane
Explorer
Explorer
Thanks, everyone, for all the answers so far!

@bikendan, yes, we have the Expy EL with OEM Tow Pkg, which helps. I have learned over the weekend how to do all the calculations, so that is becoming less of a concern.

@drsteve, "stick and tin is heavier than fiberglass" ... I assume "stick and tin" means wood frame? Is aluminum only used for roofing? I would figure some of the higher end rigs would use more aluminum (stronger/lighter) at the expense of ... expense. ?

@spoon059, thanks so much. I don't know of any RV shows anytime soon, near us... we'l have a look around. In the mean time we'll try to walk through as many dealer lots as are decently nearby and check out materials that way.. thanks!

@mobeewan, how can you tell alunimum vs fiberglass walls from the photos? And which is better? I would have figured that aluminum would have been better, but maybe not since you said it looks like Alpha Wolf may use fiberglass but be the "better" model than the Grey Wolf..

@Earl E... We're much more interested in buying a used camper made solid than a new camper made cheaply. Question is, what used brands are "made solid?"

After tons of looking, it seems we're settling into the seemingly sweet-spot (e.g. most every brand has it) a 26 Double Bunk with slide-out dinette and a pull-out sofa. While I would love a U-dinette, that seems to typically push the total length higher than I'd love, so we may have to stick with a traditional booth dinette with couch, or choose the U-dinette w/o couch.

Anyway, this will be our first camper. Looking to stay a few years behind the curve because we might decide to change models after a few months and I'm looking to avoid too much depreciation in the first six months.. thus the looking for a "quality brand." That seems to be a very difficult question to answer, though...

thanks again so much to everyone so far, I'm learning a ton here!

cheers,
..dane
2018 Ram 3500 CC SB 4x4 SRW

Earl_E
Explorer
Explorer
Floor plan has nothing to do with weight. Weight has all to do with construction materials. There is no general way to determine the differences other than doing research and more research. Just know that lighter weight means lighter material. Nothing wrong with that despite what some would say. A Rolls Royce is a very heavy car but there is nothing wrong with an Elantra. You just expect different things.
2007 Northwoods Arctic Fox 32 5S Fifth Wheel used for fulltiming for several years--SOLD
2014 Sunnybrook 26rl to poke around the smaller parks in the great Southwest
2007 Chevy Silverado 2500 HD Diesel
Prodigy brake control

mobeewan
Explorer
Explorer
X

mobeewan
Explorer
Explorer
Looking at the trailers on Forrest Rivers web site it looks like the Alpha Wolf is a higher end level of trailer. One of the features mentioned is an extreme weather package meaning it is probably a 4 season trailer with a winter package of some sort. The Grey Wolf doesn't mention anything to indicate it is a 4 season trailer and looks like it is probably an midgrade or lower end trailer.

Also noticed when searching for prices, both trailers are running $8000 - $10000 difference in price at the same dealership. Pictures show aluminum siding on the Grey Wolf and fiberglass on the Alpha Wolf.