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Not sure upper stableloads are right for me (UPDATED)

Sliding-into-ho
Explorer
Explorer
(UPDATE 10/23/2019 here: http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/29794168/gotomsg/29988533.cfm#29988533 Safe to say the upper stableloads were NOT causing any issues that I didn't have already, but the stock shocks very likely were. Upgrades continue! Big thanks to the massive wealth of knowledge on this board. In the first page of responses alone, pretty much all the relevant considerations were addressed. You Rock! Thanks also to Torklift who reached out and went the extra mile to help me get dialed in.)

Rig: 2017 F350, SRW, FX4.
Tire sticker 3243lb
Rear GAWR: 7230lb
TC: NL 9-6, 2600 Dry, 2900 Wet

The only suspension mod the dealer installed is upper stable loads. I wanted the lowers, but they said they don't install them because they don't want to deal with the drilling.

I've never hauled a TC before, but plenty of heavy trailers. The stable loads don't feel quite right. If you've ever ridden in a New York taxi cab in the 80's or 90's (you know... the Ford Tauruses and Lincoln Town Cars with shot suspensions), that's sort of the sensation: floaty, bouncy, vague, disconnected.

I wouldn't say there's a lot of sway in terms of magnitude of movement, but when it does sway, it bounces back and forth from side to side.

My hunch is simple: my rig may not be quite heavy enough to warrant full size stable loads, which engage too much of the upper overload spring (lower spring rate) and not enough of the higher spring-rate lower overload. I suspect this is why Torklift unequivocally recommends lower stable loads first. But to be clear, I don't have any experience with this and these are just guesses.

The rear fender is 1-2 inches higher than the front fender, depending on the load, for what it's worth.

Here are a few things that I would try next, but if you feel like you know a more ideal solution, please let me know:

1. Remove stable loads and get a baseline for how the truck handles fully stock. After all, I'm under my door sticker weight (I've removed a propane tank and the heavy rear patio).

2. Shave an inch or two off the stable load blocks

3. Uninstall stable loads and, assuming too much sag/roll, upgrade shocks to rancho adjustable and add Hellwig Big Wig.

4. Last option would be air bags, which would probably only need minimal inflation.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts!
2017 F-350, CC/LB/SRW
2018 Northern Lite 9-6 SE
Upper StableLoads (for now)
Nokian LT2 Studs
78 REPLIES 78

Bedlam
Moderator
Moderator
I have always made adjustments to the suspension so I am leveled out when loaded. My F250 only required upper and lower StableLoads when I loaded my camper but needed 50 PSI in the bags when I was also carrying my trailer. My 5500 needed upper StableLoads once I loaded my bigger camper, filled the lower enclosed boxes with batteries and towed my trailer (without the trailer I am slightly rear high).

Host Mammoth 11.5 on Ram 5500 HD

Kayteg1
Explorer
Explorer
I wonder if you really need air bags on dually?
I know Ford beefed up suspension on newer trucks, but my 2017 F350 dually still has rear about 1.5" higher with my 6000 lb camper, who has COG behind the axle.
I observe axle stops and it is about 1" before they'd touch.
So it would take riding on rear axle stops to have truck level.

GAR2
Explorer
Explorer
emcvay wrote:
Something is amiss I think.

I have a 2010 F350 SRW XLT PS CC LB and find the uppers are very good and I don't really need the lowers. Engaging the uppers brings in a heavy overload spring as soon as the camper is on the truck and I could do away with the air bags (though I do use them with about 20psi in them but still am not sure I need to. I've had them as low as 10 and as high as 30psi and still can't see the difference).

I can engage the lower stable loads but the lowers engage with the AF990 on anyway so really it's just keeping them engaged during spring travel over bumps etc.

The sway and rock have more to do with the shocks not handling the heavy weight so I added Rancho 9000's (adjustable)and it's a BIG improvement. I also added the Hellwig BigWig rear swaybar which helped even more. Now I'm very happy.

If it were me, in order of what I think made the most difference this is what I think would be worth doing:

1. Make sure tires are up to the job
2. Upper Stable Loads
3. Heavy Duty adjustable shocks
4. Heavy rear sway bar
5. Lower Stable Loads
6. Air Bags -- mostly for towing so you can keep the truck level or when you need to level with a heavy camper.

Your rear end on an F350 is set by the factory 2" higher than the front. This is normal.


Here I am with a camper that is 1000lbs heavier (or perhaps 1500 if your weights are scale weights and accurate -- don't go by what the Manufacturer tells you)



I have noticed the factory rear height on my 2002 F350 Dually being higher and am assuming this is so with a heavy load the truck sits level. In anticipation of a T/C and or hauling a TT or 5th Wheel I removed bed and replaced bed support channels, added load Lifter 5000 air bags over rear springs, Rancho 9000 adjustable shocks, and Timbrens on front replacing factory stops. So when I do put a heavy load on the truck do I use the air bags to make the truck โ€œLevelโ€ or still slightly high in the rear? Sorry if itโ€™s a dumb question- Iโ€™m assuming I would want some load on the springs. Thanks, Glenn

In the market to buy a T/C
2002 F350 4wd CC DRW 8โ€™ box
Load Lifter 5000 rear air bags, front Timbrens
Rancho 9000 shocks
Brighton, Illinois

Sliding-into-ho
Explorer
Explorer
Well, I put 9000xl's on the front axle yesterday, dialed em up to 9 (based on hand testing compared to the stock shocks) and the dang thing drives like a car now.

This was exactly the suspension upgrade I was looking for to fix the porpoising and straight-line bounciness (hat tip to jimh425).

The lower stableloads are doing their job--perhaps a little too well. With only 1 plate in the back and 2 plates up front (on the rear overload spring, that is), the rear fender is about 1.5 inches higher than the front. That said, there are several hundred pounds of gear and water that aren't currently loaded. If it's still half an inch high after that, I'll pop off one of the front stableload plates and it should be dialed.

So to recap, the suspension mods to date:

- replaced front shocks with rancho 9000xl, at max setting
- upper stableloads
- lower stableloads with 2 plates up front and 1 plate in back
- rear tires at 80psi, front at 70

I could be perfectly happy with this set-up indefinitely, but am planning to see how much better things could be with the following changes:

- Hellwig Big Wig rear sway bar
- Rancho 9000XL's on the rear axle
- Relocating generator from up high and behind the rear axle to down low and in front of front axle (not doing this for suspension reasons, but so I have an enclosed, locked space to run the thing)
2017 F-350, CC/LB/SRW
2018 Northern Lite 9-6 SE
Upper StableLoads (for now)
Nokian LT2 Studs

Sliding-into-ho
Explorer
Explorer
Grit dog wrote:
Sliding-into-home wrote:

I agree the stock suspension has its limits and I'm probably right at the edge (based on how I want the truck to ride/drive, anyway). With the benefit of more research and reflection, I'm hopeful that Rancho 9000 XLs are going to clean up the last little bit of my issues.


If you're considering dumping the whole thing for a bigger truck and camper anyways, I wouldn't spend another $ on it. You'll already eat a bunch of depreciation as it is and trust me, a set of red and white shocks are not going to make that much difference. But a really stout set of Deaver springs will.


I agree. I heavily considered a custom built spring back from a local shop that apparently can be quite affordable, but I'm trying to avoid mods that can't be quickly returned to stock characteristics for a few reasons.

Also, I'm not so much looking for perfection as I'm looking to get sway under control when taking an off-camber corner on the mountain in the wind, and to get the front to back porpoising under control which just borders on silly on some roads.

Lastly, there's a lot of good info here and elsewhere on the internet, but ultimately, hands-on trial and error is sometimes the only thing that will scratch a mental itch. Building knowledge and experience, etc., with the internet as a source of assistance as opposed to a replacement for that experience.
2017 F-350, CC/LB/SRW
2018 Northern Lite 9-6 SE
Upper StableLoads (for now)
Nokian LT2 Studs

Grit_dog
Nomad III
Nomad III
Sliding-into-home wrote:

I agree the stock suspension has its limits and I'm probably right at the edge (based on how I want the truck to ride/drive, anyway). With the benefit of more research and reflection, I'm hopeful that Rancho 9000 XLs are going to clean up the last little bit of my issues.


If you're considering dumping the whole thing for a bigger truck and camper anyways, I wouldn't spend another $ on it. You'll already eat a bunch of depreciation as it is and trust me, a set of red and white shocks are not going to make that much difference. But a really stout set of Deaver springs will.
2016 Ram 2500, MotorOps.ca EFIlive tuned, 5โ€ turbo back, 6" lift on 37s
2017 Heartland Torque T29 - Sold.
Couple of Arctic Fox TCs - Sold

Grit_dog
Nomad III
Nomad III
^ You're not in any danger of snapping a spring with that camper, at least not for many years and many miles IMO, although the stableloads do put different stresses on the springs, more of a point load or sharp fulcrum, to Kayteg's point. One of the reasons (besides being cheap....and lazy, didn't want to drill) that I used solid wedges for lower stable loads. The wedges essentially fill the entire gap between the main leaf and the rest of the leaf pack.

I think moreso, sith (sliding into home) hit on a point that sometimes gets these discussions out of context. The ride of the truck did not feel unsafe or make him feel uneasy. Hauled the thing in snow all winter even without the lower stableloads. But at some point, one's quest for the "perfect" ride falls upon sharply diminishing returns.

IE, I've accepted that 2 tons on the back of my little truck is going to make it handle and ride differently. But I've been piling stuff in trucks for 30 years and it's just a fact of life to me.
Whereas someone else wants "perfection" in how their ______ does ______. (Fill in the blanks, not necessarily trucks and campers but anything really)
At some point it's "good enough." And my good enough may happen before or after your good enough.
2016 Ram 2500, MotorOps.ca EFIlive tuned, 5โ€ turbo back, 6" lift on 37s
2017 Heartland Torque T29 - Sold.
Couple of Arctic Fox TCs - Sold

Sliding-into-ho
Explorer
Explorer
I don't have airbags. With respect to shear forces, if you've ever heard of someone snapping a leaf spring by using a stableload, please let me know, and please send pics. It's really hard to imagine that happening after getting intimately familiar with the leaf springs.

I agree the stock suspension has its limits and I'm probably right at the edge (based on how I want the truck to ride/drive, anyway). With the benefit of more research and reflection, I'm hopeful that Rancho 9000 XLs are going to clean up the last little bit of my issues.
2017 F-350, CC/LB/SRW
2018 Northern Lite 9-6 SE
Upper StableLoads (for now)
Nokian LT2 Studs

Kayteg1
Explorer
Explorer
Not following the whole topic, you are fixing the axle overload by adding air bags, upper stable loads and lower stable loads?
I was never admire of lower stable loads since they apply shear forces to leaf spring, but you should not have 3 systems to deal with overload.
When my 2017 Ford doesn't need any modifications, I was carrying 10k lb loads on my F450 and air bags was all I needed.
So if you don't like ride with air bags, maybe add a spring or timbrens or other mechanical support should do?
When stable loads might help with some issues, there is a limit how much you can pull from factory suspension.

Sliding-into-ho
Explorer
Explorer
Front GAWR: 5600
Rear GAWR : 7230

It was no accident that the rear axle ended up at 7200 with my typical load.
2017 F-350, CC/LB/SRW
2018 Northern Lite 9-6 SE
Upper StableLoads (for now)
Nokian LT2 Studs

Kayteg1
Explorer
Explorer
Your camper is not as light as expected (what else is new?).
My rear stays at 9000 lb and looks like your rear might be overloaded?
Post your axle and tire rating?

Sliding-into-ho
Explorer
Explorer
Kayteg1 wrote:
Did not read via all 7 pages, but I understand OP carries light camper on 2017 F350.
His is SRW, mine in dually, but I scaled my loaded camper at 6500lb and truck handles perfect with no modifications.
Would be interesting to know axle weights?


Depending on load, 5k up front and 7000-7200 out back. I'm guessing the heaviest I've ever traveled is 5200/7400
2017 F-350, CC/LB/SRW
2018 Northern Lite 9-6 SE
Upper StableLoads (for now)
Nokian LT2 Studs

Kayteg1
Explorer
Explorer
Did not read via all 7 pages, but I understand OP carries light camper on 2017 F350.
His is SRW, mine in dually, but I scaled my loaded camper at 6500lb and truck handles perfect with no modifications.
Would be interesting to know axle weights?

Sliding-into-ho
Explorer
Explorer
jimh425 wrote:
More likely shocks if your porpoising. Iโ€™d also try tire pressure change on the front and ensure they put the pressure back to what you think it is after the tire change.


I wish I'd paid more attention to this when you first said it (I think). Either way, I'll find out soon!
2017 F-350, CC/LB/SRW
2018 Northern Lite 9-6 SE
Upper StableLoads (for now)
Nokian LT2 Studs