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RV to power home temp

wvabeer
Explorer
Explorer
Does anyone use their rv to power their house during power outages?
1999 Dutch Star DP3884
2015 Camplite 6.8C
2012 Cherokee 39L destination
2022 F350 XL 4x4
07 FLHRS
59 REPLIES 59

DrewE
Explorer
Explorer
Johnny Hurryup wrote:
I have a few times. I just made a power cord with two male ends. FIRST..extremely important... shut off your main incoming circuit breaker in your home's panel. Then plug your motorhome's cord into the closest outlet in your home. Now half of the homes outlets will be powered. If it isn't the outlets you need, try plugging it into a different outlet. You will be back-feeding electricity to one of the two buss bars in your panel. One other thing, flip off any 220 volt breakers that are in your panel.( water heater, elec stove , well pump, clothes dryer etc)


PLEASE do not do this! PLEASE, PLEASE, pretty PLEASE do not advocate others do it! This is the dangerous and illegal way of doing things.

It's dangerous because you have a cord that, should it come unplugged accidentally, has exposed live prongs. It's also dangerous because you're relying on a human remembering to properly flip the breakers to be safe for the linemen etc. and human memory is not reliable. On occasion, people doing things like this cause other people to be injured or killed.

It's illegal because the NEC requires some approved positive means of transfer switching between separate power sources--which means either a dedicated transfer switch of some sort, or an approved mechanical interlock device for the breakers (making them the transfer switch), etc.

If you cannot or will not install an approved transfer switching system, then the only safe way to use a portable generator in a permanent house (with a hardwired connection to the electric utility) is to skip the building electrical system entirely and use extension cables to power whatever needs power. For an RV or perhaps a mobile home you could also plug the unit into the generator, given the appropriate cables and connectors, in which case it's of course no longer connected to the electric utility.

Johnny_Hurryup
Explorer
Explorer
I have a few times. I just made a power cord with two male ends. FIRST..extremely important... shut off your main incoming circuit breaker in your home's panel. Then plug your motorhome's cord into the closest outlet in your home. Now half of the homes outlets will be powered. If it isn't the outlets you need, try plugging it into a different outlet. You will be back-feeding electricity to one of the two buss bars in your panel. One other thing, flip off any 220 volt breakers that are in your panel.( water heater, elec stove , well pump, clothes dryer etc)

pianotuna
Nomad II
Nomad II
Hi,

I had a proper transfer switch (six circuits) installed on my home. They now have units that fit right under the power meter. They are not cheap--but they are legal and they do not back feed the power lines.

Do it once, and do it right. This is nothing to "play" with.

The other solution is to have plugs installed so that a furnace, for example may be run from the generator.

I was pleasantly suprized how much I could run without overloading my Kipor 2800 TI inverter generator. I had a natural gas stove.

Computer, lights in stair wells, main floor bathroom, master bed room, fridge, freezer, sump pump, sundry other lights, and garage door opener.
Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, 556 amp-hours of Telcom jars, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.

DrewE
Explorer
Explorer
JaxDad wrote:
DrewE wrote:
Having the neutral connected with the hots disconnected does not pose any threat of backfeeding the grid. You can't have a circuit with a single wire, and without a circuit there's no power transfer. Indeed, since the neutral is bonded to earth ground, it can't even rise or fall in potential very much at all.


A generator is back-feeding a house with the mains switched off. Power is out because of a windstorm, the ground is dry and there's poor conductivity to ground from ground rod.

Miles down the road a linesman is working on supposedly 'dead' cables, the 120 volts from the generator is now stepped via the transformer to 12k - 17k volts.....

No potential you say?

People can die from as little as 9 volts.

People HAVE died from this very situation.


What voltage is being stepped up? Where is the 120VAC potential on the secondary of the utility transformer? Only one wire is connected to the transformer, the neutral lead, and the other two are floating.

No backup generator transfer switch for a sticks-and-bricks house, at least any one that I've happened upon, switches the neutral.

JaxDad
Explorer III
Explorer III
DrewE wrote:
Having the neutral connected with the hots disconnected does not pose any threat of backfeeding the grid. You can't have a circuit with a single wire, and without a circuit there's no power transfer. Indeed, since the neutral is bonded to earth ground, it can't even rise or fall in potential very much at all.


A generator is back-feeding a house with the mains switched off. Power is out because of a windstorm, the ground is dry and there's poor conductivity to ground from ground rod.

Miles down the road a linesman is working on supposedly 'dead' cables, the 120 volts from the generator is now stepped via the transformer to 12k - 17k volts.....

No potential you say?

People can die from as little as 9 volts.

People HAVE died from this very situation.

Happytraveler
Explorer
Explorer
Yes! We don't have many power outages, but if we do it's awesome to have a backup.
Charlie, a male Soft Coated Wheaten Terrier
Katie, a female Soft Coated Wheaten Terrier

DrewE
Explorer
Explorer
JaxDad wrote:
crawford wrote:
it people could read and see the interlock system it is safe and legal and yes you can back feed by turning off main and locking it out you can legally do it. I been doing it for years and never a problem.


It is absolutely NOT legal.

The NEC requires you use a transfer kit or interlock to abolutely ensure you can't feed power back onto the grid (which would be amplified up to 17,000 volts or so by going backwards through your transformer, by the way).

Turning off your mains also doesnโ€™t completely disconnect your house either, it only breaks the two hot legs, the neutral bond remains. This could create potential in lines that the people working on them think are dead and therefore safe.

Thereโ€™s a reason the cords used to connect this way are called โ€˜suicide cordsโ€™ or โ€˜deadman cordsโ€™.


I assumed (lacking any other information) that the interlock being described was NEC approved for that purpose. There are approved interlock kits that physically prevent the main breaker and the generator feed breaker from being turned on at the same time. (Here are some available from Home Depot.) Such kits, of course, aren't used with a suicide cord and a branch circuit, but require a dedicated generator power inlet or hardwiring the generator.

Having the neutral connected with the hots disconnected does not pose any threat of backfeeding the grid. You can't have a circuit with a single wire, and without a circuit there's no power transfer. Indeed, since the neutral is bonded to earth ground, it can't even rise or fall in potential very much at all.

An RV transfer switch has to switch the neutral because it is switching the neutral/ground bond (bonded at the onboard RV generator, not bonded for shore power), biut that's not a concern for a sticks-and-bricks house where the bond is at the main panel in both cases.

JaxDad
Explorer III
Explorer III
crawford wrote:
it people could read and see the interlock system it is safe and legal and yes you can back feed by turning off main and locking it out you can legally do it. I been doing it for years and never a problem.


It is absolutely NOT legal.

The NEC requires you use a transfer kit or interlock to abolutely ensure you can't feed power back onto the grid (which would be amplified up to 17,000 volts or so by going backwards through your transformer, by the way).

Turning off your mains also doesnโ€™t completely disconnect your house either, it only breaks the two hot legs, the neutral bond remains. This could create potential in lines that the people working on them think are dead and therefore safe.

Thereโ€™s a reason the cords used to connect this way are called โ€˜suicide cordsโ€™ or โ€˜deadman cordsโ€™.

dodge_guy
Explorer
Explorer
Is there an outlet on the newer genaets to plug into. I remember in my neighbors old 00 RV there was a 30A and 20A outlets. Is there the same on the newer ones?
Wife Kim
Son Brandon 17yrs
Daughter Marissa 16yrs
Dog Bailey

12 Forest River Georgetown 350TS Hellwig sway bars, BlueOx TrueCenter stabilizer

13 Ford Explorer Roadmaster Stowmaster 5000, VIP Tow>
A bad day camping is
better than a good day at work!

dodge_guy
Explorer
Explorer
Gundog wrote:
wvabeer wrote:
I was hoping to back feed my house thru the shore power cord by killing the main power flip a switch in the motor home (separate transfer switch) and run a few items till power is restored. Maybe ad a twist lock at two points within the transfer switch, one at incoming power and other main gen power connecting to the cord depending which mode I'll be in.


Please don't. Use a transfer switch designed for this application do not trust your main breaker as a disconnect to the utility. I am a retired journeyman lineman and this can kill utility workers. I can't tell you how many failed main breakers I have seen.

If you back feed into the utility the 120/240 volt service feeding your house comes from a transformer that converts primary high voltage at the transformer to the 120/240 volts for your house. If you back feed into the transformer you create primary high voltage through the transformer. The transformer is a simple device feed high voltage in the top it makes secondary voltage out the bottom feeding your house feed secondary voltage into the transformer and it makes high primary voltage out.

Not just utility workers are at risk lets say you have a wire down on your street or 2 streets over and you back feed through your service and the neighbor kid moves the wire so he can play and dies or is maimed guess who is at fault or maybe the downed line starts a house fire etc. I know of one lineman personally that got killed by an illegal hooked up generator in Mariposa, CA and their have been more many more.

It doe not matter if your home is fed underground or overhead the threat is the same.

Best case scenario is the utility worker grounds the primary line and smokes your generator. Do NOT TRUST YOUR MAIN BREAKER TO BE A DISCONNECT TO THE UTILITY. A proper transfer switch is a break before make device that gives a physical separation to the utility service.


And even with turning off the main, will
It not still back feed on the neutral side? I thought I read that somewhere!
Wife Kim
Son Brandon 17yrs
Daughter Marissa 16yrs
Dog Bailey

12 Forest River Georgetown 350TS Hellwig sway bars, BlueOx TrueCenter stabilizer

13 Ford Explorer Roadmaster Stowmaster 5000, VIP Tow>
A bad day camping is
better than a good day at work!

crawford
Explorer
Explorer
it people could read and see the interlock system it is safe and legal and yes you can back feed by turning off main and locking it out you can legally do it. I been doing it for years and never a problem.
Change from a c class to a A class Georgetown 07 triple slide

stugpanzer
Explorer
Explorer
It's one of my options. I also have a Harbor Freight 8k screamer and my favorite a military surplus MEP803A 10KW diesel GENNY!
2006 Fleetwood Pace Arrow 37C
Mods: EEZRV Products TPMS, Cobra 29LX 50th Anniversary CB radio with Firestik NGP Antenna, Self contained sewer hose

2manytoyz
Explorer
Explorer
JaxDad wrote:
2manytoyz wrote:
I've not done this yet, but it is planned soon. I'm going to add a 240V outlet on the RV, near the generator.


Your 5500 Onan genny has a 240 output?

Mine only has a 120 volt output.


Upon researching this project, unfortunately it doesn't. It has two 120VAC circuits, but that doesn't create a 240VAC (L1 & L2) like a home setup.

I could add a 30A 120VAC outlet instead, and power up one leg of my house power. I may still do this, but it's far less desirable than what I had intended.

I already have a Yamaha EF2400iS that can accomplish this same task without modification. I also have a 7500W Champion dual fuel generator which will supply 240VAC to run all my dedicated circuits via the transfer switch.

For now, I'm going to put this RV project on a back burner.
Robert
Merritt Island, FL
2023 Thor Quantum KW29
2006 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited TOAD
2023 Jeep Gladiator Rubicon TOAD
Falcon 2 Towbar, Roadmaster 9400 Even Brake System
http://www.2manytoyz.com/

rgatijnet1
Explorer III
Explorer III
Since we live in a hurricane prone area we have used the RV to power the house refrig and freezer. The last time we did this the power was off for four days and we just lived in the RV, with the AC, during that time. Our house refrig and freezer are both energy efficient appliances so they do not use much power from the generator to keep them running. I also wired several 12 volt LED lights throughout our house that are powered by a 12 volt auto battery. This allows lighting throughout the entire house whenever we needed to use the house bathrooms. We are on municipal water so our bathrooms remained functional. I used those LED lights extensively for four days and the single 12 volt battery still seemed to have a full charge.
By living in the RV we had cool AC, satellite TV, WIFI, microwave, and stove. Basically all of the same comforts of our RV at an RV park. By preparing for the power outage in advance, we had plenty of fuel for several weeks, if needed.
I see no need to install a transfer switch when the ONLY items in the house that I need to power are our refrig and freezer, which can easily be powered with an extension cord. Doing it this way also meant that we did not have to haul things out of our house and put them in the RV refrig and freezer. We kept our RV refrig off, which saved fuel. Anything we needed was only a few steps away in the house.