Timbren/Axle Clearance for Empty '16 Ram 3500 SRW

[otrfun]

Gonna be installing some Timbrens on our '16 Ram 3500 SRW tomorrow.

Timbren recommends .5" to 1.5" inches of Timbren/axle clearance empty. Looks like I'm gonna get about 1" if I don't use the 1" spacer. Obviously little to no clearance with the included 1" spacer. Timbren also sells optional .5" spacers.

I really want to reduce sag as much as possible when I'm loaded.

What has everybody found to be the least amount of Timbren/axle clearance you can use without effecting the empty ride much?

Thanks!

[RoyJ]

That's a very good point - provides the increased roll stiffness than a set of air bags can't. Especially beneficial for hauling a camper.

[IdaD]

LIKE2BUILD wrote:

IdaD wrote:
I didn't use the spacers on my 2500 and have probably about a 3/4" gap. I don't notice any difference in the unloaded ride. When I load up the fifth wheel the truck doesn't really squat any less but it does have a better (firmer) ride going down the highway and it handles bumps at speed better. For $180 or thereabouts I think they're a really worthwhile upgrade, and less fuss than airbags. Even where they aren't "needed" they are an improvement, or at least they are in my application.

This is my exact same experience in my '14 2500.

The nice thing about the Timbrens is they give you 4 points of load bearing on the axle. I think that is one reason for the increased feel of stability when you have heavy pin weight in the bed.

KJ

Also worth pointing out that with the coil suspension they add the extra points of contact outboard of the coils, which is probably beneficial.

[LIKE2BUILD]

IdaD wrote:
I didn't use the spacers on my 2500 and have probably about a 3/4" gap. I don't notice any difference in the unloaded ride. When I load up the fifth wheel the truck doesn't really squat any less but it does have a better (firmer) ride going down the highway and it handles bumps at speed better. For $180 or thereabouts I think they're a really worthwhile upgrade, and less fuss than airbags. Even where they aren't "needed" they are an improvement, or at least they are in my application.

This is my exact same experience in my '14 2500.

The nice thing about the Timbrens is they give you 4 points of load bearing on the axle. I think that is one reason for the increased feel of stability when you have heavy pin weight in the bed.

KJ

[Cummins12V98]

Sounds good to me.

[otrfun]

Cummins12V98 wrote:

otrfun wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:
Otrfun

Please explain how I can load to my SAE RAWR 9,750# and not add a single pound to my 5,300# front axle weight and NOT be over my 14k GVWR.

To answer your question succinctly, one can either abide by all the maximum weight ratings for their truck, or not. It's a choice we all get to make.

Did not think I would get an answer.

OK how about this. I am licensed to carry my trucks GVW of nearly 16k, am I ok now?

BTW the F450 is limited to 14k also.

Cummins12v98, I don't think it's reasonable to expect me to help you rationalize your choice to exceed your payload and GVWR. I answered your question in a manner that addresses everyone's choice in this situation---not just yours. You tend to act like there's is no choice involved here. Clearly, that's not the case.

You've made your position (and choice) clear. And, and so have I. Let's just agree to disagree.

[Me_Again]

Cummins12V98 wrote:

otrfun wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:
Otrfun

Please explain how I can load to my SAE RAWR 9,750# and not add a single pound to my 5,300# front axle weight and NOT be over my 14k GVWR.

To answer your question succinctly, one can either abide by all the maximum weight ratings for their truck, or not. It's a choice we all get to make.

Did not think I would get an answer.

OK how about this. I am licensed to carry my trucks GVW of nearly 16k, am I ok now?

BTW the F450 is limited to 14k also.

My 2001.5 8800 GVWR rated RAM was licensed to 12K. Washington took my fees and said haul away up to 12K!!!!

[Cummins12V98]

otrfun wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:
Otrfun

Please explain how I can load to my SAE RAWR 9,750# and not add a single pound to my 5,300# front axle weight and NOT be over my 14k GVWR.

To answer your question succinctly, one can either abide by all the maximum weight ratings for their truck, or not. It's a choice we all get to make.

Did not think I would get an answer.

OK how about this. I am licensed to carry my trucks GVW of nearly 16k, am I ok now?

BTW the F450 is limited to 14k also.

[otrfun]

Cummins12V98 wrote:
Otrfun

Please explain how I can load to my SAE RAWR 9,750# and not add a single pound to my 5,300# front axle weight and NOT be over my 14k GVWR.

To answer your question succinctly, one can either abide by all the maximum weight ratings for their truck, or not. It's a choice we all get to make.

[Cummins12V98]

Otrfun

Please explain how I can load to my SAE RAWR 9,750# and not add a single pound to my 5,300# front axle weight and NOT be over my 14k GVWR.

[otrfun]

RoyJ wrote:
You make some very good points, and have done more research than many people on the relationships of GAWR/GVW. However, if you read what 12V98 wrote again I don't think he was disagreeing with you.

It's possible you may be more in tune with his posting style and saw his perspective more clearly. I don't post on rv.net all that regularly, so I took his posts at face value.

RoyJ wrote:
He simply pointed out that The GVWR is often artificially restricted to less than the sum of front + rear GAWRs. So in a way, you can safety exceed your "payload" or GVW, as long as your axle weight are in check (which it is).

That's one thing I find annoying in the non-commercial world. With heavy trucks, GVW is almost always sum of all GAWRs (up to the federal / State limit). You'd never see a Kenworth with 12k front axle, 40k rear tandem, and some arbitrary 49,500 lbs GVWR.

I always tell people GAWR is a true engineering spec, as it encompasses suspension, braking, axle bearing, and tire loading. GVWR is marketing / legal driven. If you don't exceed your GAWRs, then you can safely exceed GVWR. No I'm not a lawyer, but as an engineer, I'd happily act as the expert witness in court, if someone ever got sued for being over GVW but under GAWR (not aware of one).

Appreciate your explanation. I was already well aware that the sum total of the FAWR and RAWR exceeds the GVWR on many trucks (and cars, for that matter). As many of us know, this is especially true for many late-model, 3/4-ton diesel trucks. Many are "administratively" limited to a 10k GVWR for registration purposes (and have a very low payload rating as a result)---even though the axle ratings are very similar to their 1-ton SRW stablemate. Easy to understand why some may choose to ignore the payload or GVWR and focus on the FAWR and RAWR.

However, (as you suggested) if one chooses to ignore the payload/GVWR on any truck, they may open themselves up to the possibility they may have to call an expert witness, such as yourself to, hopefully, convince the court the GVWR is indeed, just a marketing gimmick---a paper tiger.

For my peace-of mind (and with all due respect for your engineering expertise), I chose to pay the higher registration fees and purchased a 1-ton SRW (vs. a 3/4-ton) so I can stay within all the truck's ratings. No expert witness necessary.

[Cummins12V98]

"You make some very good points, and have done more research than many people on the relationships of GAWR/GVW. However, if you read what 12V98 wrote again I don't think he was disagreeing with you."


THANK YOU!!!

[RoyJ]

otrfun wrote:
The issue here? You seem to not understand that I understand--lol!

I clearly elaborated on my understanding of the importance of front and rear axle weights when I discussed COG---how it's important to distribute weight properly in the camper to in order to not exceed either the FAWR or RAWR (and the GVWR in terms of payload).

..................

Bottom line, I'm confident I've practiced my proper due diligence in my choice of camper. I'm also very confident my ACTUAL axle weights (loaded) will be easily under my FAWR, RAWR, and GVWR . . . and yes, all at the same time---lol!!

You make some very good points, and have done more research than many people on the relationships of GAWR/GVW. However, if you read what 12V98 wrote again I don't think he was disagreeing with you.

He simply pointed out that The GVWR is often artificially restricted to less than the sum of front+rear GAWRs. So in a way, you can safety exceed your "payload" / GVW, as long as your axle weight are in check (which it is).

That's one thing I find annoying in the non-commercial world. With heavy trucks, GVW is almost always sum of all GAWRs (up to the federal / State limit). You'd never see a Kenworth with 12k front axle, 40k rear tandem, and some arbitrary 49,500 lbs GVWR.

I always tell people GAWR is a true engineering spec, as it encompasses suspension, braking, axle bearing, and tire loading. GVWR is marketing / legal driven. If you don't exceed your GAWRs, then you can safely exceed GVWR. No I'm not a lawyer, but as an engineer, I'd happily act as the expert witness in court, if someone ever got sued for being over GVW but under GAWR (not aware of one).

[otrfun]

Installed the timbrens using 1/2” spacers I ordered from etrailer. Gave me about 1/2” - 5/8” of timbren/axle clearance. Timbren recommends 1/2” - 1 1/2”. It rides a bit rougher over nasty railroad tracks, but otherwise not too bad. Pretty confident these are going to work out well with the new camper 🙂

[Cummins12V98]

Get over it I was making a general statement.