History of the Grand Canyon

[agesilaus]

"The region is, of course, altogether valueless … after entering it there is nothing to do but leave. Ours has been the first, and will doubtless be the last, party of whites to visit this profitless locality."

Smithsonian article

[cross21114]

We visited Joshua Tree a few days after it reopened after the government reopened (redundent?). We saw no evidence of any damage. Rumor has it that, if there was damage, it was far off the road system. The Joshua tree does not have rings so it is not possible to determine the age of each tree but they can live for up to 1000 years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yucca_brevifolia

[agesilaus]

I don't know the details of this case but Uranium ore is usually mainly an alpha emitter. Alpha radiation is stopped by a sheet of paper or your clothes and skin. It is generally only dangerous if you ingest or inhale it when it becomes quite a problem. If you carried a chunk next to your skin for long periods that would be a problem. Or if you breathed the radon gas it emits for a long time in a confined space that might be bothersome. None of that happened. This material was apparently in 5 gallon buckets and the visitors were not selecting a chunk of rock to nibble on or tie around their neck.

So I suspect this is a case of overblown hysteria.

My expertise in this area comes from being a USN Health Physics Tech (they call it Engineering Lab Tech ELT)

[Bumpyroad]

interesting:
Grand Canyon tourists exposed for years to radiation in museum building, safety manager says
bumpy

[mrw8i]

I think it's interesting to think about how the Grand Canyon was formed.

New Clues Emerge in Puzzle of Grand Canyon Age

[caver]

There are exploratory adits just above the river where they were looking for the right location to put a dam in around the mid 60's. This is about 30+ miles downstream from Lee's Ferry in Marble Canyon.

[Bumpyroad]

Ralph Cramden wrote:

Chainwright wrote:

dedmiston wrote:

agesilaus wrote:

dedmiston wrote:

agesilaus wrote:
As a group, OHV enthusiasts do not tolerate any amount of vandalism.
------------------------------------------------------------------

I am sure that is true but you have to admit there is no other explanation for what happened in Joshua Tree. OHV outlaws cut down trees to gain access to land they normally would not be able to drive on.

How do you know it wasn't some dork in a Prius? Nobody knows who did it.

Were there tire tracks heading over the spot where the trees were? Were they from a four wheeler or trail bike? Anyway look up Occam's Razor.

Well, since you're the one making the accusations, I figured you had already looked up the tracks or had some other sort of evidence.

I live in Southern California and have a lot of experience with the OHV community. I haven't heard any credible reports that the damage at Joshua Tree was caused by off-roaders. It could easily have been some human driving their car off the road, but that's a completely different animal. The reports I've heard/read talked about "tourists".

Think about what it takes to get to an area like this. You load your dirt bikes or 4x4 into your toy hauler or cargo trailer and then you drive someplace where you can stage and unload. Staging your gear takes a lot of room and only certain areas lend themselves to staging. You certainly couldn't stage and unload in a National Park, especially not with the uncontrolled crowds that were at Joshua Tree during the shutdown. You couldn't even park a rig that size, let alone drop the ramp and roll out your vehicles.

And then once you've staged and put on all your gear to go ride, you need trails to get around. You can't just ride down the highway like Mel Gibson in Road Warrior. The cops would be all over you. And riding through a National Park would actually be really hard because of all the fences and barriers.

I'm not saying it couldn't have happened, but based on my own experience I think it would be pretty unlikely. And if it did happen the way you say, there would have been outrage on all of the usual riding forums.

So lacking anything other than the posts of a gentleman from Florida, I'm going to still disagree with you.

Anyway, we've wandered far afoot of the Grand Canyon topic.

I guess you answered your own question about "Dork in a prius." I'll go sell my prius now. lol

I bet Teddy Roosevelt never dreamed there would be this much controversy when he authorized Congress to appropriate the funds for excavating out the Grand Canyon in 1776.

that roosevelt thing was just a hoax to hide that the aliens dug it.
bumpy

[Ralph_Cramden]

Chainwright wrote:

dedmiston wrote:

agesilaus wrote:

dedmiston wrote:

agesilaus wrote:
As a group, OHV enthusiasts do not tolerate any amount of vandalism.
------------------------------------------------------------------

I am sure that is true but you have to admit there is no other explanation for what happened in Joshua Tree. OHV outlaws cut down trees to gain access to land they normally would not be able to drive on.

How do you know it wasn't some dork in a Prius? Nobody knows who did it.

Were there tire tracks heading over the spot where the trees were? Were they from a four wheeler or trail bike? Anyway look up Occam's Razor.

Well, since you're the one making the accusations, I figured you had already looked up the tracks or had some other sort of evidence.

I live in Southern California and have a lot of experience with the OHV community. I haven't heard any credible reports that the damage at Joshua Tree was caused by off-roaders. It could easily have been some human driving their car off the road, but that's a completely different animal. The reports I've heard/read talked about "tourists".

Think about what it takes to get to an area like this. You load your dirt bikes or 4x4 into your toy hauler or cargo trailer and then you drive someplace where you can stage and unload. Staging your gear takes a lot of room and only certain areas lend themselves to staging. You certainly couldn't stage and unload in a National Park, especially not with the uncontrolled crowds that were at Joshua Tree during the shutdown. You couldn't even park a rig that size, let alone drop the ramp and roll out your vehicles.

And then once you've staged and put on all your gear to go ride, you need trails to get around. You can't just ride down the highway like Mel Gibson in Road Warrior. The cops would be all over you. And riding through a National Park would actually be really hard because of all the fences and barriers.

I'm not saying it couldn't have happened, but based on my own experience I think it would be pretty unlikely. And if it did happen the way you say, there would have been outrage on all of the usual riding forums.

So lacking anything other than the posts of a gentleman from Florida, I'm going to still disagree with you.

Anyway, we've wandered far afoot of the Grand Canyon topic.

I guess you answered your own question about "Dork in a prius." I'll go sell my prius now. lol

I bet Teddy Roosevelt never dreamed there would be this much controversy when he authorized Congress to appropriate the funds for excavating out the Grand Canyon in 1776.

[kedanie]

So what does all this nonsense have to do with the history of the Grand Canyon?

Seriously off topic!

Keith

[Chainwright]

dedmiston wrote:

agesilaus wrote:

dedmiston wrote:

agesilaus wrote:
As a group, OHV enthusiasts do not tolerate any amount of vandalism.
------------------------------------------------------------------

I am sure that is true but you have to admit there is no other explanation for what happened in Joshua Tree. OHV outlaws cut down trees to gain access to land they normally would not be able to drive on.

How do you know it wasn't some dork in a Prius? Nobody knows who did it.

Were there tire tracks heading over the spot where the trees were? Were they from a four wheeler or trail bike? Anyway look up Occam's Razor.

Well, since you're the one making the accusations, I figured you had already looked up the tracks or had some other sort of evidence.

I live in Southern California and have a lot of experience with the OHV community. I haven't heard any credible reports that the damage at Joshua Tree was caused by off-roaders. It could easily have been some human driving their car off the road, but that's a completely different animal. The reports I've heard/read talked about "tourists".

Think about what it takes to get to an area like this. You load your dirt bikes or 4x4 into your toy hauler or cargo trailer and then you drive someplace where you can stage and unload. Staging your gear takes a lot of room and only certain areas lend themselves to staging. You certainly couldn't stage and unload in a National Park, especially not with the uncontrolled crowds that were at Joshua Tree during the shutdown. You couldn't even park a rig that size, let alone drop the ramp and roll out your vehicles.

And then once you've staged and put on all your gear to go ride, you need trails to get around. You can't just ride down the highway like Mel Gibson in Road Warrior. The cops would be all over you. And riding through a National Park would actually be really hard because of all the fences and barriers.

I'm not saying it couldn't have happened, but based on my own experience I think it would be pretty unlikely. And if it did happen the way you say, there would have been outrage on all of the usual riding forums.

So lacking anything other than the posts of a gentleman from Florida, I'm going to still disagree with you.

Anyway, we've wandered far afoot of the Grand Canyon topic.

I guess you answered your own question about "Dork in a prius." I'll go sell my prius now. lol

[bucky]

dedmiston wrote:

How do you know it wasn't some dork in a Prius? Nobody knows who did it.

Dork in a Prius. Love it, you are now my hero of the month.

[profdant139]

dedmiston, it is good to know that the responsible ORV folks monitor the bad actors -- I was unaware of this. Keep it up! There are very few bad guys, but they can sure make a mess of things.

And I read somewhere that the "road busters" in Joshua Tree were in pickups -- not sure if that is true. But it stands to reason -- it is open desert, so the trucks could drive around the gates and power through the sand and sparse vegetation.

[agesilaus]

I could be making completely unreasonable assumption and I have no proof so this is all what engineers call a@@l extraction. I just find it unlikely that Joe Blefuziak from LA drives up with his family to the park and just so happens to have a chain saw in the trunk of his Prius. But what do I know.

OK taking your advise. And found these photos which mainly look just like pure vandalism. Whatever jerk did this obviously wasn't clearing a trail. So I'll admit my suspicions seem to be unjustified. There isn't any reason to cut down trees anyway since they can be easily driven around.

[dedmiston]

agesilaus wrote:

dedmiston wrote:

agesilaus wrote:
As a group, OHV enthusiasts do not tolerate any amount of vandalism.
------------------------------------------------------------------

I am sure that is true but you have to admit there is no other explanation for what happened in Joshua Tree. OHV outlaws cut down trees to gain access to land they normally would not be able to drive on.

How do you know it wasn't some dork in a Prius? Nobody knows who did it.

Were there tire tracks heading over the spot where the trees were? Were they from a four wheeler or trail bike? Anyway look up Occam's Razor.

Well, since you're the one making the accusations, I figured you had already looked up the tracks or had some other sort of evidence.

I live in Southern California and have a lot of experience with the OHV community. I haven't heard any credible reports that the damage at Joshua Tree was caused by off-roaders. It could easily have been some human driving their car off the road, but that's a completely different animal. The reports I've heard/read talked about "tourists".

Think about what it takes to get to an area like this. You load your dirt bikes or 4x4 into your toy hauler or cargo trailer and then you drive someplace where you can stage and unload. Staging your gear takes a lot of room and only certain areas lend themselves to staging. You certainly couldn't stage and unload in a National Park, especially not with the uncontrolled crowds that were at Joshua Tree during the shutdown. You couldn't even park a rig that size, let alone drop the ramp and roll out your vehicles.

And then once you've staged and put on all your gear to go ride, you need trails to get around. You can't just ride down the highway like Mel Gibson in Road Warrior. The cops would be all over you. And riding through a National Park would actually be really hard because of all the fences and barriers.

I'm not saying it couldn't have happened, but based on my own experience I think it would be pretty unlikely. And if it did happen the way you say, there would have been outrage on all of the usual riding forums.

So lacking anything other than the posts of a gentleman from Florida, I'm going to still disagree with you.

Anyway, we've wandered far afoot of the Grand Canyon topic.

[agesilaus]

dedmiston wrote:

agesilaus wrote:
As a group, OHV enthusiasts do not tolerate any amount of vandalism.
------------------------------------------------------------------

I am sure that is true but you have to admit there is no other explanation for what happened in Joshua Tree. OHV outlaws cut down trees to gain access to land they normally would not be able to drive on.

How do you know it wasn't some dork in a Prius? Nobody knows who did it.

Were there tire tracks heading over the spot where the trees were? Were they from a four wheeler or trail bike? Anyway look up Occam's Razor.