Cargo Trailer Conversion - Propane Issue

[Sushiholic11]

I am in the middle of converting my 14x7 cargo trailer into a "toy hauler" travel trailer.

I want to hard pipe a quick connect line under the trailer to connect my firepit and/or gas grill.

I have done some reading and I think I understand the working of the propane system, stage 1 (tank to pipe) reduced pressure to around 10-15 psi and stage 2 (pipe to appliance) reduces pressure further to .5 psi.

My question is this, is the 10-15 psi first stage a readily available part? Am I way off base with my understanding? I know I cant run the .5 psi gas to my quick disconnect line as I will then need to remove my regulator on the appliance (which renders it useless anywhere else).

Any help would be appreciated.

Bob

[JaxDad]

Sorry, by ‘answering your own question’ I meant when you said “Yes, I know, tents don't have "installed" gear, but.....”.

The ‘installed gear’ is EXACTLY the problem.

If you had a cargo trailer ‘conversion’ with a portable propane cooktop, a portable propane water heater, a 12 volt fridge and lighting you’d be golden.

[4x4van]

JaxDad wrote:


You've already answered your own question, and so have others several times already.

Actually, no one answered my question, which was to quote/link the law restricting the actual use of a homebuilt RV.

JaxDad wrote:

As for a law, and trust me, there's a similar one for every jurisdiction. For an example, California's Statutes, at 18871.5 states;

"(b) A recreational vehicle that does not bear a label, an insignia, or an insignia of approval, as required by subdivision (f) or (g) of Section 18027.3, may not occupy any lot in a park unless the vehicle owner provides reasonable proof of compliance with ANSI Standard No. A119.2 or A119.5 depending upon whether it is a recreational vehicle or park trailer....."

Thank you. THAT is what I asked for, and you finally answered.

[JaxDad]

4x4van wrote:
A tent doesn't meet any of those "RV" standards, yet campgrounds let tenters in all the time...not sure that a cargo trailer with "camping gear" would be much different.

Yes, I know, tents don't have "installed" gear, but where exactly is the line?


Can anyone quote/link an actual law restricting campsites to "certified" vehicles only? Not saying they don't exist, but...a "rule" in a private campground is not the same thing as a "law".

You've already answered your own question, and so have others several times already. A tent is NOT a recreational vehicle, and it does not have built-in systems.

A 'portable' stove is already certified.

Once you build a system of gas lines, 120 volt wiring, etc., it too must be certified.



As for a law, and trust me, there's a similar one for every jurisdiction. For an example, California's Statutes, at 18871.5 states;

"(b) A recreational vehicle that does not bear a label, an insignia, or an insignia of approval, as required by subdivision (f) or (g) of Section 18027.3, may not occupy any lot in a park unless the vehicle owner provides reasonable proof of compliance with ANSI Standard No. A119.2 or A119.5 depending upon whether it is a recreational vehicle or park trailer....."

[4x4van]

As ktmrfs says, all of these "laws" that I'm seeing here refer to the legal definition of an "RV". But none of them state that a person can't make their own (as long as they don't try to register it as an RV), nor use one of their own making. A tent doesn't meet any of those "RV" standards, yet campgrounds let tenters in all the time...not sure that a cargo trailer with "camping gear" would be much different. Yes, I know, tents don't have "installed" gear, but where exactly is the line? A large tent can very well have a stove, heater, lights, etc all hooked up to a single propane tank, as well as having a camp sink hooked up to a water supply (campground or otherwise). And what about a cargo trailer with all of the same camping gear, but the trailer itself is simply used as a "hard sided tent"? Again, where is the line?:h Can anyone quote/link an actual law restricting campsites to "certified" vehicles only? Not saying they don't exist, but...a "rule" in a private campground is not the same thing as a "law".

[JaxDad]

ktmrfs wrote:
humm..... are there ANY STATE or FEDERAL laws that require a trailer to be certified in order to enter or use a federal, state, county or local campground??

Most/ALL states require certification to be registered as a travel trailer, not aware of any limitations on use.

The laws merely say an RV must meet a standard, NFPA or ANSI, in the case of a camper or motorhome it's NFPA 1192, or ANSI 119.2.

So the way it works is renting a camping spot to an illegal camper is then in and of itself a similarly illegal act.


In the case of Oregon for example, the Building Codes Division - Chapter 918 says at 918-525-0040;

"(1) The minimum safety standards for recreational vehicles are adopted pursuant to OAR chapter 918, division 8.

(2) Effective January 19, 2017, the following standards are adopted by reference as the standards for the manufacture of recreational vehicles:

(a) The 2015 Edition of NFPA 1192, Standard on Recreational Vehicles, as published by the National Fire Protection Association.

(b) The 2014 Edition of NFPA 70, National Electrical Code, specifically but not limited to, Article 551 pertaining to Recreational Vehicles, as published by the National Fire Protection Association.

(c) The 2014 Edition of ANSI/RVIA Standard for Low Voltage Systems in Conversion and Recreational Vehicles, as published by the Recreational Vehicle Industry Association."

[ktmrfs]

humm..... are there ANY STATE or FEDERAL laws that require a trailer to be certified in order to enter or use a federal, state, county or local campground??

Most/ALL states require certification to be registered as a travel trailer, not aware of any limitations on use.

[JaxDad]

ktmrfs wrote:

JaxDad wrote:

Sushiholic11 wrote:
I am in the middle of converting my 14x7 cargo trailer into a "toy hauler" travel trailer.

Bob

I hope you only plan on boondocking or otherwise dry camping with it.

Very few if any parks will let you in with a homemade rig unless you've gone the extra mile to get it certified.

Does a park/campground have the right to prohibit entry for lack of certification? Absolutely.

A right? Technically speaking, no, not a right, a legal obligation to do so.

In fact knowingly not doing so would make them at least partly culpable if something ever happened.

[ghooos]

Question about courier and cargo ***Link Removed***Cheap Courier Insurance. How are the types of risks determined? Are there significant differences in the insurance of fragile cargo - household appliances or glass, for example, and cargo made of metal or plastic? What does the general policy do, what is it responsible for? Who has experience with this? Prompt with what firms cooperated. What problems could be?

[ktmrfs]

Sushiholic11 wrote:
I am in the middle of converting my 14x7 cargo trailer into a "toy hauler" travel trailer.

I want to hard pipe a quick connect line under the trailer to connect my firepit and/or gas grill.

I have done some reading and I think I understand the working of the propane system, stage 1 (tank to pipe) reduced pressure to around 10-15 psi and stage 2 (pipe to appliance) reduces pressure further to .5 psi.

My question is this, is the 10-15 psi first stage a readily available part? Am I way off base with my understanding? I know I cant run the .5 psi gas to my quick disconnect line as I will then need to remove my regulator on the appliance (which renders it useless anywhere else).

Any help would be appreciated.

Bob

I've seen the 15psi regulators. May need to order or go to a propane sales outlet to get one. The 15psi ones I've seen have been bright RED, probably to distinguish them from a 0.5psi low pressure regulator.

you may need a different hose to connect from the 15psi outlet down to the hard pipe. Std low pressure hoses are designed for 0.5psi

[SoundGuy]

Here in Canada the vast majority of recreational vehicles are imported from the US where they're manufactured. Code requires that every unit entering the country be CSA approved. Buy a rig in the US, import it yourself, but if it's isn't so certified any campground / park has the right to refuse entry. Whether enforced or not is up to each individual park owner / management but they know it's an issue of liability. If you're allowed entry and something happens the park's own insurance policy may not cover any damages, whether it's to property or persons. It's just not the risk to any park owner so yes, a responsible park owner here does have the right to refuse entry to any unit not appropriately certified for use here in Canada. Don't like it? - too bad, it's for the safety of everyone in the park, guests and employees alike. 😉

[ktmrfs]

JaxDad wrote:

Sushiholic11 wrote:
I am in the middle of converting my 14x7 cargo trailer into a "toy hauler" travel trailer.

Bob

I hope you only plan on boondocking or otherwise dry camping with it.

Very few if any parks will let you in with a homemade rig unless you've gone the extra mile to get it certified.

guess I've been to the "wrong" places. I have a 7x14 cargo trailer converted to a "mini" toyhauler. It has gas, living quarters etc. Since 2004 in addition to using it as a toyhauler for bike riding, we and now our son uses it as a camping trailer in parks. I've never ever had anyone even blink an eye about it when registering it or using it. In fact, many times people, including the park employees come buy to look at the inside to see how we set it up.

And I've seen many other people in parks and campgrounds that bring in a cargo trailer as well. most don't have propane, but I've seen some others that do. And they are "homebuilt" as well.

Does a park/campground have the right to prohibit entry for lack of certification? Absolutely.

[C_Schomer]

Yes, you can buy separate regulators so that you can tap between them to get the approximate 16 psi to go to a remote quick coupler. One of my first RVs had a Marshall regulator that was actually two piece with a quarter inch nipple between the first and second stage. I added a tee, an isolation valve and a 25 foot hose with the connector like the disposable tanks, I forgot the CGA#, to run any kind of camp grill I want. I kept that regulator and move it from RV to RV. I've had to make some new viton internal parts for that regulator over the years but its still working.
As far as being legal… I've been gas appliance certified since 78 and Factory Mutual, Zürich, boiler inspectors etc. gave me their blessing to repair controls,safety valves and anything else I needed to repair on large industrial equipment.
Besides being totally cheap junk, the only special thing about these RV regulators is they have the changeover built in to the first stage regulator. It works by setting the lead tank delivery pressure to be slightly higher than the lag tank delivery pressure so that the lead tank will run out first and the decrease in pressure allows the lag tank to deliver the gas and the lead/lag indicator shows that the system is now running on the lag tank. Craig

[JaxDad]

Ralph Cramden wrote:
What or who determines legal anyway?

Maybe the RVIA certification label which is a joke and not required to begin with?

The goobermint sets out life safety standards, in a sticks & bricks, it’s a building code, electric code, gas code, fire safety items, etc., etc.

With an RV it’s covered by the NFP 1192 standard it covers more than 500 safety specifications for electrical, plumbing, heating, fire and life safety established under the National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) Standard for Recreational Vehicles.

No, the RVIA seal is NOT required, but compliance with NFP certainly is. There are several private companies that can do the work, several small RV manufacturers go this way instead of using the RVIA system.

BTW, every park I’ve seen people refused at was in the US. In almost every case it was when the person registering put down what their ‘RV’ was. In one case we had pulled in late and in the morning when they came around they gave him the option of moving to an unserviced ‘tent’ site or leaving.

[JaxDad]

I don’t stay in too many ‘high scale resorts’ in my 23 year old class C m/h.

I have however seen a dozen or so, including a good friend who has a converted cube van, get turned away from campgrounds for not being legal.

In one instance he was allowed in, but had to take a space in the ‘tent’ section where there was no water or electricity.