Please confirm what I think I already know

[barchetta1]

I lost my job and selling my home and one of my cars. I moved into my camper. I have a little dog and while I lost my job I am fulfilling a "deal" to work 3 more weeks and then I hope I find a new job and eventually recover from this.. oh and Im getting a divorce and am in constant pain from a motorcycle accident 3 yrs ago (working on a surgery for pain).. oh and my medical insurance runs out end of July and then I need to either risk it or pay heavily since I am part of the "privileged" middle class that obama care does nothing for.

In short, Im a mess, stress level is high.

I have some savings and money is still coming in via severance for the next 3 months but I have to watch every dollar as my mortgage is destroying my income until the condo sells.. $2k a month plus $700 for my camper spot with expenses.

Meanwhile I have to prepare to move cross country if a job takes me there..

Im not looking for sympathy here..

My camper is a 2004 model.

I need to limit my exposure to potential downfalls.. Should I buy this regulator/surge suppressor?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06W55ZKB6/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1

I think its a no brainer, this is a great device at a great price. Essentially a voltage isolator that completely isolates the camper and all of its electronic gear (im in IT and I need my gear).

Yay or nay?

[pianotuna]

Hi,

The best way to be able to run the microwave for 2 minutes while the roof air conditioner is on is to have a hybrid inverter charger. One that does load support.

Another way to do this is to do "double conversion". Before I had a hybrid inverter, I would plug my RV into the inverter. I would "feed" only the converter from shore power.

One could move the AC breaker to its own box and have an auxiliary shore power cord to feed it. I chose to do that for the electric water heater. In fact I simply used plugs so there is no breaker in the RV for this auxiliary shore power cord. The heater draws 1400 watts so it is less than the 80% continuous load suggested.

Another argument for autoforms is that devices will run at their full wattage. Here is an example:

120 X 120 = 14,400
110 X 110 = 12,100

So at 110 volts the device only yields ~84% of the full wattage. That means any heating device (such as the water heater) will take much longer to do it's job--about 16% longer.

At 100 volts the yield becomes about 69% and it takes 31% longer for heating devices. At that level the 325 watt fridge is down to about 224 watts of "real" output.

This is why I find myself nearly always running my autoformer.

barchetta1 wrote:
Excellent! thats why I am going to follow the amazon review advice and move the 20amp ac breaker away from the 30amp main. If I can run my microwave for just 2 minutes or less while the water heater and ac are on that would help.

[Bumpyroad]

when running multiple heavy draw devices and everybody else in the park is cooking supper, running ACs, etc. you may be able to run stuff but check your voltmeter and you may be surprised that you are now running on 104/5 volts and not doing your devices any favor.
bumpy

[time2roll]

If I am running the air 24/7 my fridge and water are on propane.
Have yet to have DW start the MW while running the hairdryer 🙂

[pianotuna]

Hi Mex,

Wow! I thought I was efficient at 81 kwh per month.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

What the hey I manage fine on seventy-five-kilowatt hours per month. But no A/C.

Breakfast MUST be orchestrated.

Coffee.....then
Toast.....then
Microwave poached eggs.....then
A George Foreman cooked hamburger patty

Either it's that way

or

Turn out of the lights...
The party's over

[AllegroD]

For 2 (to 5) minutes, you can turn the WH off. Nuke supper. Turn WH back on. Same with AC. No risk of them coming on while running the MW, some of which are up to 1500 watts.

[barchetta1]

JRscooby wrote:
Wow! All the magic camping requires nowadays. I can remember visiting my Dad when he was full time. "About time for supper, when the AC cycles of put a couple of Banquets in the microwave..."

A much more pragmatic approach to the challenge of rv power than I am taking. 🙂

[JRscooby]

Wow! All the magic camping requires nowadays. I can remember visiting my Dad when he was full time. "About time for supper, when the AC cycles of put a couple of Banquets in the microwave..."

[barchetta1]

Bumpyroad wrote:
with 30 amp service, I again quote a previous poster:

"You do make a good point, the OP DOES need to learn to "manage" HEAVY loads. OP must learn to manually shed loads when a lot of heavy loads are needing to be used at one time."

bumpy

Thank you so much for re-quoting this.

[Bumpyroad]

with 30 amp service, I again quote a previous poster:

"You do make a good point, the OP DOES need to learn to "manage" HEAVY loads. OP must learn to manually shed loads when a lot of heavy loads are needing to be used at one time."

bumpy

[barchetta1]

Gdetrailer wrote:

DFord wrote:
As I said in my previous post which you must have missed:

You cannot use more than 24 amps on a 30 amp feed for any length of time. You simply can't get away with it. The 30 amp breaker in the pedestal or your main feed should trip if they're doing their jobs.

Beyond them tripping, your cord connectors will have heated up at that point and sooner or later, you'll blacken the blades and melt the cord caps and ruin the socket on the pedestal.

YOU CANNOT USE 3 HIGH AMP APPLIANCES AT ONE TIME ON 30 AMPS WITHOUT BREAKERS TRIPPING OR YOUR CORD CONNECTERS HEATING UP AND MELTING THE CORD CAPS.

The more boost your autoformer provides, the more amps that will be drawn. You can't get more than 24 amps for any length of time! Bypassing the 30 amp RV breaker by adding a 20 amp breaker is only going to ensure the pedestal breaker trips.

Wrong on many levels.

First of all, you CAN "use" ALL 30A of a 30A circuit breaker, the trick is it is for a SHORT TIME. You conveniently omitted the TIME FACTOR.

Circuit breakers are rated at 80% on a "continuous" basis and continuous in the electrical world is a circuit loaded to capacity for 3 hrs or more.

In reality, a 30A breaker must be able to sustain a 100% RATING INDEFINITELY, HOWEVER, NEC dictates 80% FOR APPLICATION!

Why the difference?

HEAT, yep, heating of the circuit (wires, switches, breakers) comes into play.

Heating takes TIME, so in reality, it IS possible to run a 30A load for a SHORT TIME on a 30A circuit without tripping the breaker.

OP must have a single pole "combo" breaker with 30A AND 20A breakers, combo breakers tend to false trip if both circuits on the SAME breaker are heavily loaded for LONG periods of time.

The fix for that is to use full size SINGLE CIRCUIT breakers or if box accepts two SEPARATE 1/2 size breakers or if that is not possible MOVE a lesser amperage circuit to the combo breaker (IE, change 30A/20A single to a 30A/15A single then move a 15A circuit to that breaker).

I am not a fan of those combo breakers but sometimes you do not have a choice and I have used them in those cases.

HERE is a good "primer" on CB sizing..

You do make a good point, the OP DOES need to learn to "manage" HEAVY loads. OP must learn to manually shed loads when a lot of heavy loads are needing to be used at one time.

As far as those "autoformers" goes, yes, you could use one, however due to power loses you basically are trading off one issue for another.

A 30A 120V RV gets you a max of 3600W to work with, using an autoformer to BOOST low INPUT voltage from the campground will result in a slight loss of available USABLE wattage so in reality you might only get say maybe 3400W (28A) in your RV and start tripping the campgrounds 30A breaker depending on how much the autoformer has to boost the voltage.

Power management will be critical, sometimes difficult to get used to if you are coming from a 100A or higher 240/120 service entrance life of a real home.

Personally, before dumping tons of money down the drain for an autoformer, perhaps take a hard look at what you feel are fragile..

Most electrical devices ARE designed to operate as low as 108V and not sustain damage.. If you are in a campground that is continually having brownouts of 107V or lower then it is time to MOVE ON..

Campgrounds I have been in the lowest voltage I have seen on my monitor has been 111V with an average of 119V in the summer in a park with 1800 campsites.. Heck I have seen worse voltages at a cousins home we visit in the summer time..

Excellent! thats why I am going to follow the amazon review advice and move the 20amp ac breaker away from the 30amp main. If I can run my microwave for just 2 minutes or less while the water heater and ac are on that would help.

I'll get a single 30 and single 20 and just move things around a bit.

the doubles were to save money by the manufacture without any regard for the owner. nice.

Im trying to find a cheap voltage logger.. cheap = >$50. With a such a device Id have data to backup spending money on an autoformer. Again, Im mostly worried about my ac. low voltage wont hurt the water heater.

thanks for the great information!

[barchetta1]

pianotuna wrote:
Hi,

Yes that is the same unit I own and love.

It is not often that 30 amps will power 3 heavy draw items.

Some of us get around that by having auxiliary shore power cords. I have the OEM 30, a 20, and a 15 amp. I use a patch board approach using plugs, so I can return the RV to OEM wiring in seconds.

I do have an inverter/charger that allows load support--so I can draw more than 30 amps for a while. BTW load support is NOT voltage support--hence I have the autoformer.

barchetta1 wrote:

sorry I missed this post and stand corrected.. I assumed it was an isolation transformer.. come to think about it, that transformer would have to be ginormous isolate 30 amps.

I guess my dilemma as I mentioned earlier is do I spend the money on a 30 amp surge suppressor or one with v regulation built-in.

thanks for the link, headed there tonight!

I assume your solar panel setup is for when you have no shore power. I do have a panel with a modest 12v battery built in. But thats only really good enough for a charge of my cell phone and maybe part of my laptop. its made for hunting camera's.

I cant decide on the autoformer.. on the one had if my ac goes out I will wonder if voltage did it and beat myself up, on the other Im currently paying a premium for a premium campground that is safe and offers good utils and clean grounds with a no idiots tenant policy. One complaint and you are out.

Is this the Sola you have?

Well that is likely a less expensive way of getting an autoformer 🙂

[DFord]

Gdetrailer wrote:

DFord wrote:
As I said in my previous post which you must have missed:

You cannot use more than 24 amps on a 30 amp feed for any length of time. You simply can't get away with it. The 30 amp breaker in the pedestal or your main feed should trip if they're doing their jobs.

Beyond them tripping, your cord connectors will have heated up at that point and sooner or later, you'll blacken the blades and melt the cord caps and ruin the socket on the pedestal.

YOU CANNOT USE 3 HIGH AMP APPLIANCES AT ONE TIME ON 30 AMPS WITHOUT BREAKERS TRIPPING OR YOUR CORD CONNECTERS HEATING UP AND MELTING THE CORD CAPS.

The more boost your autoformer provides, the more amps that will be drawn. You can't get more than 24 amps for any length of time! Bypassing the 30 amp RV breaker by adding a 20 amp breaker is only going to ensure the pedestal breaker trips.

Wrong on many levels.

First of all, you CAN "use" ALL 30A of a 30A circuit breaker, the trick is it is for a SHORT TIME. You conveniently omitted the TIME FACTOR.

Circuit breakers are rated at 80% on a "continuous" basis and continuous in the electrical world is a circuit loaded to capacity for 3 hrs or more.

In reality, a 30A breaker must be able to sustain a 100% RATING INDEFINITELY, HOWEVER, NEC dictates 80% FOR APPLICATION!

Why the difference?

HEAT, yep, heating of the circuit (wires, switches, breakers) comes into play.

Heating takes TIME, so in reality, it IS possible to run a 30A load for a SHORT TIME on a 30A circuit without tripping the breaker.

OP must have a single pole "combo" breaker with 30A AND 20A breakers, combo breakers tend to false trip if both circuits on the SAME breaker are heavily loaded for LONG periods of time.

The fix for that is to use full size SINGLE CIRCUIT breakers or if box accepts two SEPARATE 1/2 size breakers or if that is not possible MOVE a lesser amperage circuit to the combo breaker (IE, change 30A/20A single to a 30A/15A single then move a 15A circuit to that breaker).

I am not a fan of those combo breakers but sometimes you do not have a choice and I have used them in those cases.

HERE is a good "primer" on CB sizing..

You do make a good point, the OP DOES need to learn to "manage" HEAVY loads. OP must learn to manually shed loads when a lot of heavy loads are needing to be used at one time.

As far as those "autoformers" goes, yes, you could use one, however due to power loses you basically are trading off one issue for another.

A 30A 120V RV gets you a max of 3600W to work with, using an autoformer to BOOST low INPUT voltage from the campground will result in a slight loss of available USABLE wattage so in reality you might only get say maybe 3400W (28A) in your RV and start tripping the campgrounds 30A breaker depending on how much the autoformer has to boost the voltage.

Power management will be critical, sometimes difficult to get used to if you are coming from a 100A or higher 240/120 service entrance life of a real home.

Personally, before dumping tons of money down the drain for an autoformer, perhaps take a hard look at what you feel are fragile..

Most electrical devices ARE designed to operate as low as 108V and not sustain damage.. If you are in a campground that is continually having brownouts of 107V or lower then it is time to MOVE ON..

Campgrounds I have been in the lowest voltage I have seen on my monitor has been 111V with an average of 119V in the summer in a park with 1800 campsites.. Heck I have seen worse voltages at a cousins home we visit in the summer time..

Gdetrailer,

How does "FOR ANY LENGTH OF TIME" as I put it differ from the way you worded it - "SHORT TIME"? It makes me wonder how much of what I wrote you actually read. I said you can't use anymore than 24 amps for any length of time. You said breakers are rated at 80% for continuous use. (30 x 0.8 = 24) We're saying the same thing using different words. There's no reason to begin your comments with "WRONG ON MANY LEVELS" unless you're trying to be disingenuous. You just reiterated almost everything I said - perhaps in words more to your liking but still your attack on what I said was unnecessary.

I'd be willing to bet any campground that found someone plugged into both the 30 amp and 20 amp receptacles on their pedestals will be asked to pay 50 amp rate or leave the park.

[CharlesinGA]

barchetta1 wrote:

Bumpyroad wrote:
Yesterday was running air, water heater and micro. 30amp main blew.

of course it did.
bumpy

Why do you say of course? RV should be designed for full load? Are you being sarcastic? Sorry can't tell.

EDIT: if you read the review I posted I think this personal nailed it. In my coach the 30amp main and 20amp AC are combined into one breaker. the heat created likely causes the main to pop early since it is sitting on top and taking the heat from the AC.

NO, they are not designed for a full load. A microwave is 750 to 1000 watts. the A/C is 1500 to 1600 watts, the water heater is about 1400 watts, and the fridge, when running on AC current is an intermittent load of 500 watts or so. You also have a power converter using 120v AC to make 12v DC to charge the batteries and run the light. These can be drawing several hundred watts also.

Basically, you need to pick what you want to use, and turn off the rest. If running the AC, then its OK to run EITHER the water heater or the microwave, but NOT both. In fact my motorhome, now sold, had an automatic load switch that allowed the water heater to run, until it saw load on the microwave circuit, at which time it shut off power to the water heater. When the microwave stopped, it again turned on the water heater. KEEP stuff turned off if you are not using it. Water heats very quickly in the tiny water heaters RV's have, so don't leave it on, turn it on, let it heat, use it, shut if off.

30 amps at 120 volts is 3600 watts. National Electric Code considers anything running continuously and anything that generates heat, such as an electric water heater to be a continuous load. Your total continuous load should never exceed 80% of your total, thus anything over about 2900 watts is too much, and you will eventually burn up your power plug on the end of your shore cord, and also have other issues in the electric system.

Charles