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wilber1

Abbotsford B.C.

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Posted: 06/24/19 08:36am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Captcha is really staring to p*** me off.


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2112

Texas

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Posted: 06/24/19 08:51am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Reisender wrote:


Again. Can’t compare gas stations to charge stations. The vast majority (around 95 percent depending on region) of charging is done at night at home in a driveway. There will never be a need for as many DCFC stations as there is for gas stations. That’s one of the reasons people buy EV’s. No more wasting time at gas stations.
several people I work with can't have an EV because they live in apartments or high rise condos. They don't have a driveway to charge overnight in. One person owns a house and a Bolt. He would like to buy a condo closer to work but would lose his ability to charge.

Just saying


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valhalla360

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Posted: 06/24/19 09:49am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Reisender wrote:

Again. Can’t compare gas stations to charge stations. The vast majority (around 95 percent depending on region) of charging is done at night at home in a driveway. There will never be a need for as many DCFC stations as there is for gas stations. That’s one of the reasons people buy EV’s. No more wasting time at gas stations.


That's true...if we limit EV sales to upper/middle class. The vast majority of current EV owners are well into the upper/middle class as regular folks can't afford the upfront cost of an EV...so your 95% assumption is highly distorted.

Once you go below average household income, you are more often than not talking about renters who rarely have a garage with outlet available.

So to get wide scale market penetration, you will still need charging stations.


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valhalla360

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Posted: 06/24/19 10:14am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

JaxDad wrote:


Better solution? You bet. Pay tuition, pay per mile you drive, any for what YOU use, not for someone else’s use.


Pay per mile works if everyone drives similar vehicles...and when gas tax came out, most were getting 10mpg (passenger car or pickup truck), so it was pretty much pay per mile...with just a few outliers.

Of course, per mile isn't perfect. A 1.5ton compact is doing far less damage to the pavement compared to a 12.5 ton RV and it's not a linear relationship but an exponential relationship so it's many times the damage. Also, your RV is taking up more capacity than a compact car...again several times as much capacity.

Road maintenance and upgrades can be broken down into two primary components:
- Fixing damaged pavement due to wear and tear...this is mostly a function of vehicle weight and trucks (including RVs) make up the vast majority of this damage. When we design pavement, we totally ignore passenger cars because they do so little damage.
- Providing sufficient capacity, you need X number of lanes, added turn lanes, traffic signals over stop signs etc..., this is mostly a function of the number of vehicles but slow lumbering vehicles, like RVs tend to reduce capacity by more than a faster more nimble passenger car.

Bad MPG is typically associated with larger vehicles that increase maintenance costs...so again, while not perfect, pretty much matches up with paying for what you use.

Now if you want to talk about unfair, large commercial trucks pay no where close to their fair share. Even though they may pay thousands per year in fuel tax, they often do millions in damage to pavement.

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Posted: 06/24/19 10:38am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

2112 wrote:

Reisender wrote:


Again. Can’t compare gas stations to charge stations. The vast majority (around 95 percent depending on region) of charging is done at night at home in a driveway. There will never be a need for as many DCFC stations as there is for gas stations. That’s one of the reasons people buy EV’s. No more wasting time at gas stations.
several people I work with can't have an EV because they live in apartments or high rise condos. They don't have a driveway to charge overnight in. One person owns a house and a Bolt. He would like to buy a condo closer to work but would lose his ability to charge.

Just saying


Absolutely a real situation. But doesn’t change the fact that there will never need to be as many charge stations as gas stations. Because the majority will still charge at home wether they own or rent the home, house or apartment. There will be some that can’t. But workplace charging is already on the rise and faster than anybody thought. No one is saying there won’t be a need for more DCFC stations but there will never be a need for as many DCFC as there is FSD stations. With a gas car you only have one choice. A gas station. Many who drive EV’s have never used a DCFC station ever. We use one about half a dozen times per year on road trips.

rk911

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Posted: 06/24/19 11:55am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

be careful when tossing around adverbs like 'always' and 'never'. in my experience using absolutes usually prove to be untrue or inaccurate.


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time2roll

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Posted: 06/24/19 12:10pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I am still waiting for a tenant request for a charging station.
They all know I drive an EV... since 2011.


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JaxDad

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Posted: 06/24/19 07:28pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

valhalla360 wrote:

JaxDad wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:

Fuel tax is the primary source for road funding and is one of the most fair methods as it is directly tied to your use of the system...but EVs circumvent this.


Fair? Hardly!

I drive my SUV about the same distance (35k miles) per year as my neighbour drives her Honda.

Except, her Honda burns (pays taxes on) roughly 700 gallons of gas, while my SUV burns roughly 2,250 gallons, or approximately 325 % more and so I pay about 3.25 times more tax to do the same amount of driving.

Can someone say (with a straight face) that my ride creates more than 3 times the amount of maintenance of roads that her Honda does?

Mind you, she also has 4 kids that go to school for free, I have no children, but I pay more than 10 times the school taxes she does........


If you are burning 325% more fuel, you are presumably driving a lot more miles (even with MPG difference)...so yeah, you are creating a lot more need for road costs.

It's not perfect but it's one of the most fair tax systems.


Sorry, I guess in your rush to find a flaw in what I said you missed the first main point I made.

“I drive my SUV about the same distance (35k miles) per year as my neighbour drives her Honda.”

So no, 35k miles EACH is NOT ‘a lot more miles’, it’s EQUAL miles.

Bird Freak

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Posted: 06/24/19 07:29pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

rk911 wrote:

JaxDad wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:

Fuel tax is the primary source for road funding and is one of the most fair methods as it is directly tied to your use of the system...but EVs circumvent this.


Fair? Hardly!

I drive my SUV about the same distance (35k miles) per year as my neighbour drives her Honda.

Except, her Honda burns (pays taxes on) roughly 700 gallons of gas, while my SUV burns roughly 2,250 gallons, or approximately 325 % more and so I pay about 3.25 times more tax to do the same amount of driving.

Can someone say (with a straight face) that my ride creates more than 3 times the amount of maintenance of roads that her Honda does?

Mind you, she also has 4 kids that go to school for free, I have no children, but I pay more than 10 times the school taxes she does........


nothing is free, let's get that straight. and you chose a vehicle that gets 1/3 the gas mileage she gets. that's a choice. and presuming that your schools are funded via property tax you apparently own a home that's bigger, in a better neighborhood and/or newer than hers. that's also a choice. if the roles were reversed would you be complaining? got a better solution?

I think so. Drop the school tax and charge a fixed price for every kid you have in school. That will take the cost off the property owners that have never had kids and place it where it belongs. Apt dwellers, renters, illegal's with a bunch of kids all get a free education at home owners expense.


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wilber1

Abbotsford B.C.

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Posted: 06/24/19 09:50pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Bird Freak wrote:

rk911 wrote:

JaxDad wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:

Fuel tax is the primary source for road funding and is one of the most fair methods as it is directly tied to your use of the system...but EVs circumvent this.


Fair? Hardly!

I drive my SUV about the same distance (35k miles) per year as my neighbour drives her Honda.

Except, her Honda burns (pays taxes on) roughly 700 gallons of gas, while my SUV burns roughly 2,250 gallons, or approximately 325 % more and so I pay about 3.25 times more tax to do the same amount of driving.

Can someone say (with a straight face) that my ride creates more than 3 times the amount of maintenance of roads that her Honda does?

Mind you, she also has 4 kids that go to school for free, I have no children, but I pay more than 10 times the school taxes she does........


nothing is free, let's get that straight. and you chose a vehicle that gets 1/3 the gas mileage she gets. that's a choice. and presuming that your schools are funded via property tax you apparently own a home that's bigger, in a better neighborhood and/or newer than hers. that's also a choice. if the roles were reversed would you be complaining? got a better solution?

I think so. Drop the school tax and charge a fixed price for every kid you have in school. That will take the cost off the property owners that have never had kids and place it where it belongs. Apt dwellers, renters, illegal's with a bunch of kids all get a free education at home owners expense.


So who paid for your education? Not you.

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