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valhalla360

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Posted: 06/26/19 06:29am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

JRscooby wrote:


This is true, if you understand that all taxes the trucking industry pays is past on to their customers, and on to the final users of everything.
I would like to know what you call "All in" and "fair share"...


Fair is those benefiting pay proportional to the benefits...so I'm good with trucks paying their fair share and it being passed along. No reason to artificially pass those costs to someone buying locally produced products.

Truckers tend to be afraid of this because it will shift more transport to rail and water. Particularly long haul trucking would be seriously impacted by this as the longer the distance, the more rail and water are viable options (local delivery not so much).


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valhalla360

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Posted: 06/26/19 06:33am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

JaxDad wrote:

Aggressively? Now there's a wildly erroneous assumption.

First, it's not a commuter, I never said it was.

Secondly, there's a little thing called physics.

My ride has a 6.3 liter V8, her Honda has a 1.5 liter 4 cylinder.

But if you care about silly things like facts, my SUV actually gets far superior mileage to her Honda if you look at fuel consumption based on engine displacement.

My engine is 4.2 times the size of her's yet only uses 3.2 times the amount of fuel, so it's nearly 1/3 MORE fuel efficient in that aspect.


Per Passenger Mile, you choose a wildly inefficient mode of transport...that's your choice...you pay for your choice.

By your logic, if you yank a giant 3 ton 1000hp diesel out of a yacht and mate it to your SUV, its' even more efficient relative to displacement...but that's irrelevant. It's the job that gets done that counts.

JRscooby

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Posted: 06/26/19 07:22am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

valhalla360 wrote:

JRscooby wrote:


This is true, if you understand that all taxes the trucking industry pays is past on to their customers, and on to the final users of everything.
I would like to know what you call "All in" and "fair share"...


Fair is those benefiting pay proportional to the benefits...so I'm good with trucks paying their fair share and it being passed along. No reason to artificially pass those costs to someone buying locally produced products.

Truckers tend to be afraid of this because it will shift more transport to rail and water. Particularly long haul trucking would be seriously impacted by this as the longer the distance, the more rail and water are viable options (local delivery not so much).


Well, you have shown no evidence that the total tax the industry pays does not cover the wear trucks put on the road. Bell, the average of what I have paid for cars in my lifetime would be lower than just the registration tax the last year I ran my truck.
I prefer local work, and understand if you only consider fuel the rails are much more efficient than trucks. But all in, I'm not so sure. Look at all the abandoned RR beds, and small towns that had freight (and passenger) service when I was a kid that don't now.
And I did pretty good some nights with a RGN moving railroad repair equipment from one track to another. Other times, a repair crew short of spikes and plates, load my enddump, and pay a premium rate to get them delivered to the crew. I liked hauling for the RR, except it was always a slooow pay.

valhalla360

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Posted: 06/26/19 11:11am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

JRscooby wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:

JRscooby wrote:


This is true, if you understand that all taxes the trucking industry pays is past on to their customers, and on to the final users of everything.
I would like to know what you call "All in" and "fair share"...


Fair is those benefiting pay proportional to the benefits...so I'm good with trucks paying their fair share and it being passed along. No reason to artificially pass those costs to someone buying locally produced products.

Truckers tend to be afraid of this because it will shift more transport to rail and water. Particularly long haul trucking would be seriously impacted by this as the longer the distance, the more rail and water are viable options (local delivery not so much).


Well, you have shown no evidence that the total tax the industry pays does not cover the wear trucks put on the road. Bell, the average of what I have paid for cars in my lifetime would be lower than just the registration tax the last year I ran my truck.
I prefer local work, and understand if you only consider fuel the rails are much more efficient than trucks. But all in, I'm not so sure. Look at all the abandoned RR beds, and small towns that had freight (and passenger) service when I was a kid that don't now.
And I did pretty good some nights with a RGN moving railroad repair equipment from one track to another. Other times, a repair crew short of spikes and plates, load my enddump, and pay a premium rate to get them delivered to the crew. I liked hauling for the RR, except it was always a slooow pay.


Google Equivalent Single Axle Loads.

FHWA studies found that your average semi does the damage of 10,000 passenger cars. Even smaller single unit trucks are a few thousand times the damage.

So unless you are keeping that car for several centuries...it's not doing nearly as much pavement damage as your truck for the same miles per year driven.

time2roll

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Posted: 06/26/19 11:20am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

The point is we all collectively pay for the roads. No method is perfect.
My thought is... roads should be paid with general income tax or sales tax or both.
Petrol tax can be used for roads or reducing pollution or pollution clean up.


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rk911

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Posted: 06/26/19 12:52pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

time2roll wrote:

The point is we all collectively pay for the roads. No method is perfect.
My thought is... roads should be paid with general income tax or sales tax or both.
Petrol tax can be used for roads or reducing pollution or pollution clean up.

to your point, only about 50% of people pay federal income tax and the rate for paying state income tax while unknown to me is likely not much different. but everyone buys stuff. and low income folks that don't pay fed income tax and likely no state income tax still drive (we personally know several that fit that category) and buy gas. as you say, no system is perfect but as fair as possible to as many people as possible, not perfection, should not be the goal. someone(s) will always be outliers to whatever system is in place.

I 'spose you could assess a annual fee to every registered motor vehicle in a state regardless of the owner's income level or maybe a sliding scale based on the owner's income level or as has been stated some sort of formula based on miles driven in the previous year, weight of the vehicle, etc. could be constructed but then you run into issues of having to prove out of state mileage, paying a percentage of tax to that state or states, etc. gets very complicated very fast. but either way that would have to be a pretty hefty fee to replace the road tax at the pump. and it would have to include every registered vehicle/owner regardless of income level unlike the federal/state income taxes.


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valhalla360

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Posted: 06/27/19 05:03am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

time2roll wrote:

The point is we all collectively pay for the roads. No method is perfect.
My thought is... roads should be paid with general income tax or sales tax or both.
Petrol tax can be used for roads or reducing pollution or pollution clean up.


So because it's "not perfect" you prefer a system that is less fair than the current one?

time2roll

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Posted: 06/27/19 09:11am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Less fair? I think the wealthy and high income people can pay more toward the infrastructure. For the basic job commute and general living those that pay little income tax are serving the wealthy anyway. Too many kids go to school hungry.

valhalla360

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Posted: 06/27/19 12:37pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

time2roll wrote:

Less fair? I think the wealthy and high income people can pay more toward the infrastructure. For the basic job commute and general living those that pay little income tax are serving the wealthy anyway. Too many kids go to school hungry.


In other words... your idea of a fair plan is for someone else to pay for it.

time2roll

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Posted: 06/27/19 02:04pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Yes the person that reaps all the benefits of low wages can pay an increased share of the infrastructure to get that employee to work.

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