Good Sam Club Open Roads Forum: Tongue weight issue on new toy hauler
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 > Tongue weight issue on new toy hauler

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rhagfo

Portland, OR

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Posted: 06/21/19 06:20am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

twodownzero wrote:

rhagfo wrote:

nayther wrote:

If FR has the unit then it's pretty serious. Sounds like axles are too far forward. Of course adding water, etc. to the front will help but why should you have to do that? Proper engineering is needed


Will never understand, why TH don't have axles placed like horse trailers. much closer to the rear.

This would solve the issue with being tail heavy, but could be an issue for tongue weight.
The 30' 4 horse with small living quarters trailer had about the same 2,700# pin EMPTY as our 32' 5er fully loaded at 12,500#.

[image]


If that's true, the truck in the picture is massively overloaded. It has 2000 pounds of payload at most. And if so, you answered your own question--to keep from massively overloading 3/4 ton trucks.


Yep, it sure was, or is it? the only thing supporting the trailer is the jacks under the axles so we can get the tires replaced, AND the rear axle of the TV. TV had camper package and optional 265/75-16E tires.
Dodge was very lazy in those years only GVWR on the 2500 was 8,800#, manual trans and Camper package put the same springs as the 3500 DRW (NO SRW 3500 1994 to 2002), I think Dodge could have bumped up closer to 10,000# due to the heaver springs. I will state no Air Bags or other support devices installed.
It is DD's trailer, dad convinced her to get a 2004 Dodge 3500 DRW to haul it with, combo does great.
As for Dad, we also got a 2016 Ram 3500 DRW, as getting a newer 3500 SRW would be a lateral move even with a 12,300# GVWR. Both pulled and handled great.


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colliehauler

Mc Pherson KS USA

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Posted: 06/21/19 06:24am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

lincster wrote:

Forest river has had this issue for years.
I agree about axle placement.
Did not know this. I own 2 Forest River TH TT and never had a issue. Usually loaded with motorcycles the heaviest thing was a jet ski and trailer.

valhalla360

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Posted: 06/21/19 06:35am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

rhagfo wrote:

nayther wrote:

If FR has the unit then it's pretty serious. Sounds like axles are too far forward. Of course adding water, etc. to the front will help but why should you have to do that? Proper engineering is needed


Will never understand, why TH don't have axles placed like horse trailers. much closer to the rear.

This would solve the issue with being tail heavy, but could be an issue for tongue weight.
The 30' 4 horse with small living quarters trailer had about the same 2,700# pin EMPTY as our 32' 5er fully loaded at 12,500#.


5th wheels typically run 20-25% pin weight...this results in needing at least a 3/4 ton and often a 1 ton for all but the smallest 5th wheels.

A bumper pull typically runs 10-15% hitch weight. This allows moderate size trailers to be pulled with 1/2 ton trucks. If they pushed the wheels back to increase the hitch weight, people with 1/2 ton trucks would rule out their trailers...which means reduced sales because 1/2 ton trucks are drastically more popular than 3/4 & 1 ton trucks.

Of course, the downside of this compromise is hitch weight will vary substantially depending on loaded or unloaded. In a reverse of typical conditions, a truck pushing the limits may be overloaded (hitch weight) when the toy hauler is running lite with no toys.

I would be very curious to find out what the manufacture actually finds in this situation.
- Did someone mess up when calculating the weight distribution?
- Did the OP have other cargo not mentioned that threw off the weight distribution?
- Was the WDH set up correctly?
- Was there something else we can't see given the limited information provided?


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Spyingeye

Benton, AR

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Posted: 06/26/19 12:19pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Bit of an update. I talked to them today and they said they contemplated moving the axle but realized that wasn’t going to fix the issue. Instead they added 125 lbs to the A frame on the trailer tongue. I don’t know how well this going to work but now deducts from my total GVW. They are going to bring it back to me to test out and we’ll go from there.

colliehauler

Mc Pherson KS USA

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Posted: 06/26/19 01:37pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

What they probably meant was it was a lot cheaper and quicker to add weight then to move the axles.

My opinion only that's BS about the axle move not fixing the problem.

lincster

Mesa Az

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Posted: 06/27/19 07:58am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

That is a 100% band aid fix.
Cheap for them.
Moving axles is not cheap for them.
Horrible service.


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nayther

Burbank, CA

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Posted: 06/27/19 09:06am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

lincster wrote:

That is a 100% band aid fix.
Cheap for them.
Moving axles is not cheap for them.
Horrible service.


yep, cheap and dirty and it does decrease your load carrying capacity. They need to redo your VIN sticker too. You now have a trailer with lesser capacity than you purchased. Not sure if that has any effect on how you intend to use the trailer.


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Spyingeye

Benton, AR

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Posted: 06/27/19 09:27am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

nayther wrote:

lincster wrote:

That is a 100% band aid fix.
Cheap for them.
Moving axles is not cheap for them.
Horrible service.


yep, cheap and dirty and it does decrease your load carrying capacity. They need to redo your VIN sticker too. You now have a trailer with lesser capacity than you purchased. Not sure if that has any effect on how you intend to use the trailer.


Very valid point. I’ll have to mention that to them when they call me back.

CincyGus

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Posted: 06/27/19 01:06pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

No way I would settle for that solution. They are taking away weight from the cargo carrying total that you paid for. Your close already with a 1700 lb toy in a trailer with 2200 CCC. Are you really able stay below 500 lbs of other camping gear, food, water, clothes, etc? No way I could.

They need to fix the issue by moving the axle and I would be asking to have them increase the axle rating (put a bigger axle on it) as a solution if they feel they need to leave the added weight up front to at a minimum leave you the CCC you thought you were getting.

My two cents but don't settle for less that what you researched and paid for capability wise.


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twodownzero

NM

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Posted: 06/27/19 07:32pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

rhagfo wrote:


Yep, it sure was, or is it? the only thing supporting the trailer is the jacks under the axles so we can get the tires replaced, AND the rear axle of the TV. TV had camper package and optional 265/75-16E tires.
Dodge was very lazy in those years only GVWR on the 2500 was 8,800#, manual trans and Camper package put the same springs as the 3500 DRW (NO SRW 3500 1994 to 2002), I think Dodge could have bumped up closer to 10,000# due to the heaver springs. I will state no Air Bags or other support devices installed.
It is DD's trailer, dad convinced her to get a 2004 Dodge 3500 DRW to haul it with, combo does great.
As for Dad, we also got a 2016 Ram 3500 DRW, as getting a newer 3500 SRW would be a lateral move even with a 12,300# GVWR. Both pulled and handled great.


Not just those years, GVWR stayed at 8800 for a while into the next generation. Seems you answered your question yourself--vehicle was 1000 pounds overloaded once passengers got in it with the empty trailer. Once trailer is loaded it only got worse from there. Glad your dad got a DRW. I'm on my last SRW myself, just too easy to overload the truck with pin weight.

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