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 > Campground Breakers - EDITED

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Bill.Satellite

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Posted: 07/14/19 02:56pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

It's pretty scary that the park owner is either a liar or knows nothing about electricity! Breaker absolutely fail. They were NEVER designed to be on-off switches as we use them and use in the manner, over time, will cause bad connections. I have had breakers replaced at campgrounds a couple of times and I have moved from one site to another for the same reason a of times more.
Either convince the owner you need a new breaker or get the heck out of there!


What I post is my 2 cents and nothing more. Please don't read anything into my post that's not there. If you disagree, that's OK.
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2chiefsRus

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Posted: 07/15/19 05:50am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Original poster - Moved to another campground and both AC's ran for over 4 hours without any problem at all. So I guess the electrician at the last campground has some work to do.


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JoeH

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Posted: 07/15/19 06:04am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I've had similar issues before and had the CG maintenance guy change out the breaker and that resolved the issue.


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Ivylog

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Posted: 07/15/19 06:38am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Park changed the 50A breakers and the new tripped too. Two ACs and a Aqua Hot with 2 electric elements will overload most systems. His electric bill was $230 while mine was $80.


This post is my opinion (free advice). It is not intended to influence anyone's judgment nor do I advocate anyone do what I propose.

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DownTheAvenue

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Posted: 07/15/19 02:42pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

DrewE wrote:

DownTheAvenue wrote:

DrewE wrote:

(Incidentally, the suggestion that current always goes up when voltage goes down is absolutely incorrect for many loads. Electric motors and motor-driven equipment is a rather complicated case; the current may go up, down, or stay the same, at least within some reasonable range of voltages. If the voltage drops low enough, the current will of necessity go down; otherwise you'd have the air conditioner etc. consuming inifinte current when unplugged with the generator off! For resistance heaters and incandescent lights, the current (and hence power consumed) drops as voltage drops.)


In other words, Ohm's Law is not a fact. WOW! I did not know that. Thanks for posting this new relevation!


Ohm's law is a description of how many, but certainly not all, things behave electrically. Ideal resistors follow Ohm's law; practical physical resistors (including such things as wires and fuses) come very close indeed to the ideal, over a wide range of voltages and currents. Of course, for things that follow Ohm's law, the current is proportional to the applied voltage, and so goes down as the voltage drops.

Things like semiconductors and motors under load and incandescent lights are not ohmic, some very much so, and for them the relation of current to voltage is different and generally more complicated. Ohm's law can still be used in some circumstances as a handy analysis tool, perhaps only under fairly closely defined circumstances. In other words, it's still useful at times to treat such non-ohmic things as their equivalent resistances at some specified operating conditions.


I am not an electrical engineer, are you? However, I have several advanced degrees and did do a little study about what you posted, as well as removing a few cob webs from my brain where I did study the science and physics of electricity obtaining an advanced degree, and I cannot support anything you posted. I would appreciate your citing sources so I can better educate myself. Without any citations, I have to assume you are merely an armchair critic without any qualifications.

wa8yxm

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Posted: 07/15/19 03:07pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

2chiefsRus wrote:

Original poster - Moved to another campground and both AC's ran for over 4 hours without any problem at all. So I guess the electrician at the last campground has some work to do.


No. .. I'd say the other campground does not even have an electrician but needs one. at least they need a manager who's head is not stuck in his exhaust pipe.


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FloridaRosebud

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Posted: 07/15/19 03:48pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

DownTheAvenue wrote:

DrewE wrote:

DownTheAvenue wrote:

DrewE wrote:

(Incidentally, the suggestion that current always goes up when voltage goes down is absolutely incorrect for many loads. Electric motors and motor-driven equipment is a rather complicated case; the current may go up, down, or stay the same, at least within some reasonable range of voltages. If the voltage drops low enough, the current will of necessity go down; otherwise you'd have the air conditioner etc. consuming inifinte current when unplugged with the generator off! For resistance heaters and incandescent lights, the current (and hence power consumed) drops as voltage drops.)


In other words, Ohm's Law is not a fact. WOW! I did not know that. Thanks for posting this new relevation!


Ohm's law is a description of how many, but certainly not all, things behave electrically. Ideal resistors follow Ohm's law; practical physical resistors (including such things as wires and fuses) come very close indeed to the ideal, over a wide range of voltages and currents. Of course, for things that follow Ohm's law, the current is proportional to the applied voltage, and so goes down as the voltage drops.

Things like semiconductors and motors under load and incandescent lights are not ohmic, some very much so, and for them the relation of current to voltage is different and generally more complicated. Ohm's law can still be used in some circumstances as a handy analysis tool, perhaps only under fairly closely defined circumstances. In other words, it's still useful at times to treat such non-ohmic things as their equivalent resistances at some specified operating conditions.


I am not an electrical engineer, are you? However, I have several advanced degrees and did do a little study about what you posted, as well as removing a few cob webs from my brain where I did study the science and physics of electricity obtaining an advanced degree, and I cannot support anything you posted. I would appreciate your citing sources so I can better educate myself. Without any citations, I have to assume you are merely an armchair critic without any qualifications.


I'm in the same boat as you, however I am an electrical engineer, have my PE in 12 states, have been practicing for 39 years, and have dealt with 100's, if not 1000's of induction motors, and his statements are pretty much all wrong. I decided not to post and see if others stepped up, which they have. Ohms law is not a guide or suggestion, just like a speed limit is not a suggestion. In addition, the power of a motor is P=V*I. No resistance there. In addition, every, and I mean every circuit can be broken down into a Thevenin(sp) equivalent, where Ohms law applies. In fact, I have taught a course on motors, and motor design and maintenance a few years back. So I have a bit of experience here...

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DrewE

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Posted: 07/15/19 09:36pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I am not an electrical engineer, but I am a computer engineer (Master's from RIT) and that involved about 1/3 EE, 1/3 Computer Science, and 1/3 its own classes. Certainly there are many who know more than I do, but I'm not wholly ignorant of what I am saying...or at least attempting to say. It's very possible that what I think, and am attempting to write, is not quite making it into words very clearly.

Power is defined as voltage times current (at any given instant, or an average integrated over time); I have no argument there, and of course the definition of power is not Ohm's law.

Ohm's law relates voltage applied to something to current that flows through it, making the voltage proportional to the current with the resistance being the constant of proportionality. Many materials behave in this way in practical circuits, and so may be modeled as a resistor and analyzed using Ohm's law. This implies that the V/I curve for whatever being described is precisely linear, and passes through the origin. If the current through some device goes up when voltage goes down, then rather clearly Ohm's law does not apply to it, or at the least the resistance (or equivalent resistance) is not constant but is itself varying with the applied voltage in some fashion. For electric motors, the relationship of voltage and current also varies with the mechanical load applied to the motor, the speed the motor is turning at, and maybe some other things.

A Thevenin equivalent circuit is a very handy analysis tool for linear circuits. It doesn't apply to circuits with components that have nonlinear behaviors, such as semiconductors, although often an adequate model may be derived by assuming linear response over some limited operating range.

A silicon diode, for example, is hardly linear in its response, but can be modeled reasonably accurately by a pair of Thevenin equivalent circuits: a quite large impedance when reverse biased (the applied voltage is less than the threshold voltage of about 0.7V), and a small impedance with a voltage source equal to the threshold voltage when it's forward biased.





ArchHoagland

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Posted: 07/15/19 11:25pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_impedance


Impedance is the reason current draw goes up as voltage goes down.

Impedance is the AC equivalent to DC resistance.


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DrewE

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Posted: 07/15/19 11:35pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ArchHoagland wrote:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_impedance


Impedance is the reason current draw goes up as voltage goes down.

Impedance is the AC equivalent to DC resistance.


A constant impedance would mean that the current goes down as the voltage goes down, rather than up. (And that of course is also true in the DC case with a constant resistance.)

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