Selling Canadian MHome in US with no title

[Orion]

A recently widowed friend of ours has consigned her Foretravel DP to a dealer in Phoenix for sale. We helped her move it down there at the end of last year.
Vehicles in Canada, in our province anyway, do not have an actual title, but a registration with the province.
The Mhome has now been sold, but the lack of a title now seems to be a real problem to the dealership and is suggesting that she go down there IN PERSON to complete the transaction.
As this could entail one of us going down there with her, this would appear to be an expensive and unnecessary trip.
Does any one out there have any experience with this? Posted here as more Canadians might see it. I did see somewhere that not all US states issue titles either?

[Orion]

That could be an option, to import it from Mexico, but from what I can remember, which isn't that much as I wasn't really involved, was that the Mhome did not need to be imported into the US as it had already originated from the US and had been registered there for 14-15 years.
Same as if it had to be brought back into Canada, it wouldn't have to be imported again. We'll see what happens as our friend has been in contact with the various authorities. Thanks for all your input on this , and I will let you know what happens.

[alfredmay]

If the vehicle needs to be "properly imported" into the US for the purpose of sale, could the owner drive it into Mexico and turn around and import it for sale at a USA/Mex border crossing? Mexico is a lot closer than Canada if you are in Texas.

[JaxDad]

I’ve done exactly this process, luckily BEFORE sale, a few times now.

The comments about importation are spot on. It’s illegal for a Canadian to drive an RV into the US and then leave it there when they go home unless they own real estate and it’s left there.

They vehicle MAY be allowed to be ‘imported’ through a non-border CBP Point of Entry if the agent on duty is unaware of the process, but even then the owner must process themselves since a vehicle brought in for tourism is considered personal property, like really big luggage.

On my first attempt we tried to process it through a Florida Point of Entry and were refused and told to drive the unit back to Canada and re-enter “properly”.

[Orion]

Pardon me if Im missing something but
What is the difference between Registration and Title?
Isnt it the same thing?

As far as I can tell, the 'Title' on a vehicle in the US, is similar to the 'Title' that we used to have on Real Estate here in BC, many years ago. It was an actual document that confirmed who owned the property. It was cumbersome, got lost, got forged, etc and was replaced by a simple registration at the Land Registry.
It's similar with our vehicle registration, with the ownership recorded at a central registry.
As an update, our friend has contacted the seller where they originally bought the unit in Texas, and they will be sending her the 'required documentation' whatever that means. !

[DrewE]

free radical wrote:

Pardon me if Im missing something but
What is the difference between Registration and Title?
Isnt it the same thing?

No, they are not the same thing.

A title is a document proving that you (or the bank, or whomever) owns the vehicle. A registration is a permit to operate the vehicle on the public roads. If you lease a vehicle, you will have the registration, but (I think) the title would be held in the name of the dealer. If you don't drive the vehicle on the public roads at all, it may very well not be registered at all, but you'd still hold a title on it, generally speaking.

In my case, for my motorhome, I have a valid Vermont registration, but do not have a Vermont title because Vermont does not issue titles for vehicles sixteen years old or older. Maine and New Hampshire, at least, have similar policies. (It is possible in Vermont to obtain an "exempt vehicle title" for vehicles over 25 years old if one so desires, but strangely enough there seems to be no way at all to obtain a Vermont title for a vehicle between 15 and 25 years old.)

Very often when buying a vehicle the DMV will issue both at the same time and as part of the same overall transaction.

[free_radical]

Orion wrote:
The motorhome was bought used in Texas a few years ago, and brought back to Canada, and registered it here. They did all the documentation, at the border, when they imported into Canada. Our friend is not aware of receiving the title when they bought it, as this could have been looked after by her husband, who is no longer alive.
It's so frustrating to wait so long for it to be sold, and now that it looks as though it will be, the dealership doesn't know what to do!
It's also frustrating that she found out about this last Friday evening when all the 'usual contacts' are closing for the weekend. !

Pardon me if Im missing something but
What is the difference between Registration and Title?
Isnt it the same thing?

[westernrvparkow]

Once the vehicle was legally imported into Canada it became illegal to sell it in the US until it is imported (not just driven in, but processed through customs for sale in the states) back into the US. You should consult US customs for the actual process to make it legal to sell. Crossing country borders is way different than crossing state lines.

[Orion]

The motorhome was bought used in Texas a few years ago, and brought back to Canada, and registered it here. They did all the documentation, at the border, when they imported into Canada. Our friend is not aware of receiving the title when they bought it, as this could have been looked after by her husband, who is no longer alive.
It's so frustrating to wait so long for it to be sold, and now that it looks as though it will be, the dealership doesn't know what to do!
It's also frustrating that she found out about this last Friday evening when all the 'usual contacts' are closing for the weekend. !

[westernrvparkow]

okhmbldr wrote:
Does the MH have a Canada tag or a US tag? If it's US, then follow the tag to the state and file for a lost title. With that info contact the original titled owner and have them sign it over.
In absence of a title, the dealer should be able to do a title 42 (in Oklahoma), a lot of paperwork but it will establish the person in possession as the proper owner, then allow them to get a tag and new title.
Wrecker services do this all the time to get a clear title to abandoned vehicles so they can sell them at auction with a good title.

That would only work on Vehicles that have a US titling history. This is a Canadian registered vehicle. Canada is not state, it is a completely different sovereign country. State laws, US uniform commercial code and other laws regarding ownership transfers and the like do not apply to cross border transactions. The RV in question cannot be sold in the US without import documentation being completed. Simply put, the vehicle is the US as a visitor. Just like someone on a tourist visa cannot work in the US, the visiting RV cannot be sold. It needs to get it's equivalent of a Green Card which is the import paperwork. Only then can it be sold in the US. Trying to use different state's DMV offices to try and circumvent US import laws just isn't going to work. This isn't a junk vehicle, it is a luxury motorhome likely worth multiple 10s of thousands of dollars at a minimum. There are very specific steps that will need to be taken to complete a sale. Quite frankly, the best option for the seller if they don't want to take the time and expense of completing all the required documentation might be to just return it to Canada and sell it there.

[okhmbldr]

Does the MH have a Canada tag or a US tag? If it's US, then follow the tag to the state and file for a lost title. With that info contact the original titled owner and have them sign it over.
In absence of a title, the dealer should be able to do a title 42 (in Oklahoma), a lot of paperwork but it will establish the person in possession as the proper owner, then allow them to get a tag and new title.
Wrecker services do this all the time to get a clear title to abandoned vehicles so they can sell them at auction with a good title.

[westernrvparkow]

The consignment undoubtedly contained a clause requiring the consignee to provide all necessary documentation to facilitate a sale. The fact a dealer took it on consignment doesn't negate any paperwork requirements.
When you bring an item from one country to another for the purpose of sale, it is required that the product be legally "imported". For personally owned vehicles from Canada this is generally taken care of at a port of entry by the legal owner. Apparently, you neglected to tell the border agent the vehicle was going to be sold in the US, so now there is a problem. No state is going to issue a tile, and Foretravel isn't going to be able to provide a replacement certificate of origin.
For all the states know, the vehicle may have a huge bank lien on it from a Canadian Bank and someone is trying to outrun a repossession and get a big chunk of cash at the same time. They won't issue a title without proper paperwork and that paperwork includes import documentation.
This isn't going to be easy. Best place to start to get real answers will be US Customs.

[Orion]

Thanks for all your help with this. I have been passing all this on to her and she will forward it on to the dealership.
I thought after I posted this last night that someone must have the original title!

[DCS7]

As a former DMV employee, all states know that Canada doesn’t issue titles and would require a bill of sale along with it. Compliance with the safety requirements is often an issue, but it sounds like it originated in the US so that shouldn’t be a problem. The other sticking point may be that it was not imported properly, which would require paperwork from the import company.
It seems like calling the dealer and finding the actual problem is in order, travel seems unnecessary. Perhaps a 3 way call with the Arizona DMV.

[newman_fulltime]

If she has no title she has to go to who has the title last and they have to get a replacement and sign it over to her