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Grit dog

Black Diamond, WA

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Posted: 07/16/19 10:58am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Is it your lack of experience towing or not knowing what to expect? Yes trucks drive differently with a trailer hooked up. But if your trailer is actually only 4400lbs, I can’t imagine even needing a WDH much less it taking a significant amount of weight off the front of the truck.
2” level and some mud tires isn’t by itself going to affect handling that much.

4400lb trailer AND a bed full of heavy “stuff” is a different situation.
Little more about the setup?
How much does it sag the truck when you drop the trailer on? Would have to be VERY tongue heavy trailer at that weight to make much difference in steering.


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Campfire Time

Wisconsin

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Posted: 07/16/19 12:06pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Bevo10 wrote:

Not to sound stupid but payload is weight in the vehicle correct? If that's the case the only thing in the vehicle would be two people at 350lbs total. No cargo.


Payload is how much available CC you have. It's on a yellow sticker in your driver side door jamb. Add the 350# of people, the 75# or so the WDH weighs, and the tongue weight. This all counts toward payload. Usually tongue weight can be rough calculated to be 10%-15% of trailer weight. Let's assume for a moment that the trailer is fully loaded and weighs 4338. At 13% that's a 563# tongue weight. That's 988# to subtract from the payload.

Here's a question, is the 4,338# dry weight or GVWR, in other words how much does it weigh ready to camp?

Grit dog wrote:


How much does it sag the truck when you drop the trailer on? Would have to be VERY tongue heavy trailer at that weight to make much difference in steering.


Actually that's not necessarily true. Just 1/2 inch in increased front fender height can make for a scary ride in a 30 mph cross wind. And 4400# is enough weight on a 150/1500 series truck to need a WDH.

And yes, those AT tires can be a problem. I just replaced my tires with OEM speced tires and it's a world of improvement from the AT tires I had for 3 years.

* This post was edited 07/16/19 12:12pm by Campfire Time *


Chuck D.
“Adventure is just bad planning.” - Roald Amundsen
2013 Jayco X20E Hybrid, 2008 GMC Sierra SLE1 Crew Cab Z71


BenK

SF BayArea

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Posted: 07/16/19 01:03pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Need much more info and actual weights in order to provide useful opinions, but the final decision is the OP's

What is the TV's :
  • GVWR
  • front GAWR
  • rear GAWR
  • Actual weights of each axle, fully loaded ready to go RV'ing
  • What does your TV instruction manual say about WD'ing...back to original height or weighting in reference to non-WD, etc


What is the Trailer's :
  • GVWR
  • actual weight
  • tongue weight...okay to use the brochure listed, but have to use that in reference to the brochure trailer weight...this will be a percentage of the dry trailer weight. That will provide the ball park tongue weight when fully loaded, ready to go


What is the HD hitch system :
  • type or brand and model
  • Spring bar or truniun bar rating


The OP is going to go around in circles touching, adjusting, etc all of the various dials/knobs without the above info and am wondering if the OP knows the goal in all of these adjustments...to get the TV to what the manual recommends after WD'ing...that the trailer tongue weight should be around 12% of the trailer's actual weight...that the trailer tongue should be level or pointed slightly down...


-Ben Picture of my rig
1996 GMC SLT Suburban 3/4 ton K3500/7.4L/4:1/+150Kmiles orig owner...
1980 Chevy Silverado C10/long bed/"BUILT" 5.7L/3:73/1 ton helper springs/+329Kmiles, bought it from dad...
1998 Mazda B2500 (1/2 ton) pickup, 2nd owner...
Praise Dyno Brake equiped and all have "nose bleed" braking!
Previous trucks/offroaders: 40's Jeep restored in mid 60's / 69 DuneBuggy (approx +1K lb: VW pan/200hpCorvair: eng, cam, dual carb'w velocity stacks'n 18" runners, 4spd transaxle) made myself from ground up / 1970 Toyota FJ40 / 1973 K5 Blazer (2dr Tahoe, 1 ton axles front/rear, +255K miles when sold it)...
Sold the boat (looking for another): Trophy with twin 150's...
51 cylinders in household, what's yours?...

Grit dog

Black Diamond, WA

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Posted: 07/16/19 04:32pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

"Actually that's not necessarily true. Just 1/2 inch in increased front fender height can make for a scary ride in a 30 mph cross wind. And 4400# is enough weight on a 150/1500 series truck to need a WDH.

And yes, those AT tires can be a problem. I just replaced my tires with OEM speced tires and it's a world of improvement from the AT tires I had for 3 years. "

Meh, maybe for you. Depending how much weight "1/2" takes off the front axle I suppose. It likely boils down to what your used to and if your not used to handling a myriad of different trailers then I could see something a little out of the norm being a little sketchy for some.

OEM spec tires? In general, the 20-30 new trucks I've had, the OEM tires are mostly mushy pieces of _____. Nothing says stability and confidence when loaded or towing like a heavier, stiffer, better traction in inclement conditions tire.

One person's definition of scary may be another's definition of easy towing. I think am beginning to figure out what the polar attraction is to weight distributing hitches though. For those that have not towed alot, it must really enhance the sense of security. I need to try one sometime...

APT

SE Michigan

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Posted: 07/16/19 08:32pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Lots of things can be a problem, but I recommend spending a couple hours with that WDH. Tilt the head angle more and fewer links under tension. Spend $15 at a CAT scale sounds like a cheap potential solution compared to many other ideas that are speculation and potentially costly to change.

3 passes with 3 axle weights
Truck alone
Truck with trailer without WD bars
Truck with trailer with WD bars

Truck front axle
Truck rear Axle
TT axles (both)

If your front axle weighs 3200 pounds alone, trailer tongue on ball may give up 300 pounds to 2900 pounds. Adjust that WDH to get back to 3200 pounds.


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Grit dog

Black Diamond, WA

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Posted: 07/16/19 11:37pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Do the math....got what? 5-600 lb tongue weigh maybe?
Hitch 3' behind rear axle, roughly. Front axle 12' in front of rear axle.
600lbs on the hitch takes 150lbs off the front axle.
Not enough to make much difference at all. 75lbs off each tire...

Campfire Time

Wisconsin

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Posted: 07/17/19 09:27am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Grit dog wrote:



Meh, maybe for you. Depending how much weight "1/2" takes off the front axle I suppose. It likely boils down to what your used to and if your not used to handling a myriad of different trailers then I could see something a little out of the norm being a little sketchy for some.

OEM spec tires? In general, the 20-30 new trucks I've had, the OEM tires are mostly mushy pieces of _____. Nothing says stability and confidence when loaded or towing like a heavier, stiffer, better traction in inclement conditions tire.

One person's definition of scary may be another's definition of easy towing. I think am beginning to figure out what the polar attraction is to weight distributing hitches though. For those that have not towed alot, it must really enhance the sense of security. I need to try one sometime...


The trouble is that you and I are coming at this from different perspectives. You have a 3/4 ton truck, I have a 1/2 ton. Different capabilities and different towing experiences. And you said it yourself, there is a lot of missing info the OP has not provided.

And just why would you need a hitch for a TC?

Grit dog wrote:

Do the math....got what? 5-600 lb tongue weigh maybe?
Hitch 3' behind rear axle, roughly. Front axle 12' in front of rear axle.
600lbs on the hitch takes 150lbs off the front axle.
Not enough to make much difference at all. 75lbs off each tire...


The math is only part of the story. The reality is in driving. Yes, some trucks will just fine. Others not so much. The part the math can't take into account is the truck's suspension.

APT

SE Michigan

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Posted: 07/17/19 10:23am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

While I agree in principal with Grit, math based upon estimates is poor. "4,338" trailer weight seems like a published wry weight. Could be 5500-6000 pounds loaded with 800 pounds of TW. I have no idea. Collect more data - get some facts to make better decisions.

* This post was edited 07/18/19 06:49am by APT *

BenK

SF BayArea

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Posted: 07/17/19 12:15pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

A TV and trailer tongue loading...it is NOT a hard fulcrum like a teeter-toter, but compliance from the tires and suspension (AKA Squat) which adds another level of geometry to account for

Then the weight of the TV forward of the rear axle's axis of rotation. Does the OP have a standard half ton with short bed?...extended cab and that added weight...crew cab and that added weight and all of the options this half ton has up there

Another assumption is that, since the OP says 'strong' might mean it has the 6.2L, which is typically optioned with lots and lots of goodies

Hows about that 2" 'leveling' modification? What is that? Body lift, lift blocks on the rear axle, or ???

parker.rowe

Delaware

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Posted: 07/17/19 03:33pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

BenK wrote:

A TV and trailer tongue loading...it is NOT a hard fulcrum like a teeter-toter, but compliance from the tires and suspension (AKA Squat) which adds another level of geometry to account for

Then the weight of the TV forward of the rear axle's axis of rotation. Does the OP have a standard half ton with short bed?...extended cab and that added weight...crew cab and that added weight and all of the options this half ton has up there

Another assumption is that, since the OP says 'strong' might mean it has the 6.2L, which is typically optioned with lots and lots of goodies

Hows about that 2" 'leveling' modification? What is that? Body lift, lift blocks on the rear axle, or ???


My first guess for a 2" leveling on an IFS GM truck would be a torsion bar crank/adjustment. Leveling is almost always a front end lift, since most pickups ride higher in the back from the factory.


2015 Starcraft TravelStar 239TBS 6500 GVWR
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