Brake Issues & Tire Issues

[SeaBiscuit]

Hello, my name is Mike. I am a long time listener, first time caller. I would like your guys opinion on the following:

I have a 29’ Class C motorhome from Damon Corporation on a 1993 - Ford E-350 chassis.

Background
Prior to our trip, I got a multiple point safety inspection and actioned the recommendations that the shop suggested. This included:

1. Oil change.
2. Replacement of upper & lower ball joints, steering stabilizer and front sway bar bushings.
3. Replace rotors and pads, service callipers and repack bearings.
4. Replace power steering hoses / top up fluid.
5. Swap front tires with rear inside tires (both tires starting to cup)

I netted about 1000 - 1200 kilometres (620 - 740 miles). We travelled inland and went over some mountain passes. The trip was not without issues. All in all, it worked out fine, but I would like to get some input from the forum gods (you know who you are) to clarify some things for me.

Situation

After making it over the first leg of a mountain pass, I noticed that there was an unusual amount of vibration coming from the rear wheels of the trailer. I took it pretty easy from there on out (didn’t really exceed 90 km/hr). Later that day while driving on flat road. I heard a loud bang and thought it might be something with the drive train, but still retained power.

I called CAA (Canadian version of AAA) and the tow truck driver quickly identified it as being that the inner rear tire (formerly front tire) had fallen prey to sidewall separation and actually finally popped. That’s fine, he got the spare put on and got us on our way with the recommendation of getting the other inner rear tire replaced or at least looked at because it should signs of the same issue.

Before setting off to return home, we stopped at a nearby tire shop to follow up on the tow truck drivers recommendation. Sure enough, they found an issue with the other rear inner tire and were able to replace both my spare and the other tire with a 85% treaded pair of tires.

The technician suggested that the sidewall separation may have been caused by rotating the front tires to the rear as they already showed signs of cupping and that by putting on them on the rear axle might have caused the issue due to all the extra weight on top of them. The tires were only 4 years old (Hercules Terra Trac?).

Question 1
Does this sound reasonable? If so, is it something that maybe the shop who I originally took the unit to should have been aware of and maybe not have done?

Carrying on, we decided to take another mountain pass home. The grades were steep and fairly sustained. I down shifted to control my speed without having to use the brakes as much as possible. I still had to use the brakes and by the time we got back to the flat, I could smell my brakes.

We now have a brake shudder at whenever applying the brakes at speeds of 70 - 80 km / hr.

I have taken the unit in to the same shop and they diagnosed the brakes as cooked (not sure what that all entails, but they are not willing to cover it under warranty). The whole job had cost $700 in the first place and they are preparing a quote to fix the issue again, but I feel as if brakes should probably last longer than one 1000 - 1200 km road trip. I get that downhill and brakes are not good, but I felt as if I babied the motorhome by going slower speeds and using the gears to control my speed.

Question 2
What do you think about the brakes not being covered under warranty? The job was completed probably 3 weeks ago and I just got back from my trip a few days ago. I realize that our selected path of travel might not have been the best for the vehicle, but it still seems like an extremely short lifespan for a brake system.

The parts used were:

Raybestos - PGD557M (Pads)
Duralast 5457 (Rotors)

I am a little frustrated with the situation. I feel as if the shop that I went to kind of hosed me with the tire rotation and also with not wanting to replace brakes under warranty. Am I being unreasonable? Somebody chime in and tell it to me true.

[SeaBiscuit]

Hey Everyone,

Thank you very much for all your input. It looks like I'm going to have to pay the piper. I appreciate all the honest input no matter how hard of a pill to swallow it is.

I am going to just pay the piper and lament the expenses of RV ownership. It was a good trip with the family and fun was had by all, except now I will have to spend some time paying the unforeseen costs back.

I appreciate the various opinions and will consider them all. Thanks again and all the best to you all.

[ron_dittmer]

Hi SeaBiscuit,

Here is my take on this without reading through all the previous comments from others.

1) Tires
I never rotate the tires for this reason. The rear tires wear into their own pattern in pairs. When you rotated the front to the rear, you inadvertently placed more weight on the inner rear tires because they have more thread and therefore they stand taller than the outer rear tires. So don't rotate RV tires for that reason. Just replace the front tires when they become questionable. When it is time, your rear tires should be replaced as a set of four for the reason I mentioned. If I ever get a flat tire and place a new spare next to a worn one, I will not be comfortable about it.

2) Brakes
You will have to pay for the front disk brake over-heating rotor-warp damage.

BUT understand this. Your 1993 E350 chassis has rear drum brakes. I would almost wager money that your rear drum brakes are not adjusted properly to perform as they were designed. When adjusted properly, they will take the stress off the front brakes which caused them to heat up and warp to pulsate. I speak from personal experience with my first motor home, though it was a duel rear wheel Toyota chassis, not an E350.

It will be very hard to find a shop that will spend the time to adjust your rear drum brakes properly. I ended up doing my two rear drums myself at home. It took me well over an hour to adjust them and I needed another person in the driver seat while I was on my back on the driveway by each rear drum brake. On a level surface with all rear tires in the air on jack stands, transmission in neutral, and parking brake disengaged, I had my helper pump the brake after each time I got a drag on the tire-pair while spinning them by hand. Pumping the brake re-centers the brake shoes which then had me adjusting them again. I finished after nearly 20 cycles per drum, retaining a slight drag. I was totally shocked as to the improvement in the stopping power my rig gained. I never had trouble again with over-heated and warped front brakes. The safety factor was another monumental gain. For safety alone, get your rear drums adjusted as I described.

[blownstang01]

Brakes, As some have said, make sure to check the rears are working properly. Also, (I'll probably get jumped on here for this 🙂 ) but "Duralast" rotors are absolute junk. I'm surprised any professional shop uses parts from Autozone. They are the cheapest made parts available. Get some quality rotors, Like Raybestos, Wagner, etc. Personally, I run EBC pads (green)...but the Raybestos ones they used are good too.

[theoldwizard1]

I have a vintage E150 and brakes have been an issue. You need the absolute BEST pads and rotors money can buy. This is a problem because even a long time, name brand manufacturer like Raybestos makes multiple grades of the same product.

Never been let down by Michelin tire in 50 years of driving.

[opnspaces]

The story of the cupping causing a failure in the rear is BS. Unfortunately as you know now, the vibration was the tire separating. Had you stopped and inspected you might have caught it before it popped. But truthfully being an inner tire it's also very probable you would not have seen it even if you did stop to look.

As to the brakes, yeah the shop is not at fault on this one. But take heart, it might just be glazing on the rotors. 20 years ago I would never recommend the following and instead want straight to turning (machining) the front rotors, but experience has taught me otherwise.
Ask the shop if they will pull each rotor and use some sandpaper or a 3m buffer wheel to knock the glazing off the front and back of the rotors then reassemble.

If you are mechanically inclined you can do it yourself.

• Wait for the brakes to cool
• Remove one front wheel at a time with the coach on a suitable safety stand
• Take some 150 or 220 grit sand paper and hand sand diagonally across the rotor in two different directions
• Sand until you have knocked all the shiny off
• Next sand the inside of the rotor (you might have to remove the caliper to access this side)
• Reassemble everything, torque to specs and test drive.

[carringb]

Stuck calipers are very common on class c's, because water from the cabover drains onto the front brakes, and the lack of use makes the sliders seize.

That said... I don't think that's what's going on here based on your events.

I'd very strongly suspect the back brakes aren't doing their share of work. Your E350 has rear drums. The star wheels rust up and no longer self adjust. Also, many class C owners never brake hard enough going backwards to even turn the adjuster wheel in the first place.

If it's not super rusty, you might be able to turn it by hand. But at the age you your coach, you probably need new adjusters, and possibly other drum brake hardware regardless of shoe life.

If the shop who did the front brakes was asked to do a full brake inspection, and they didnt' acutally check the rear brake hardware, IMO they should give you a break on the front brake costs.

[whemme]

The E350 chassis has a maximum gross weight rating of 12,500 lbs as I recall. Your 29' length Class-C is most likely noticeably overweight above 12,500 lbs. That overload can make it harder on your brakes. Have you ever weighed your coach? Also, were you pulling a toad with no auxillary braking system?

[winnietrey]

Service calipers? I wonder, ford is famous for sticking calipers, Especially their old style ones which you have. (something about the material they made the piston out of, as I recall) Perhaps servicing them was not enough, and they froze up. Weird, they did not replace them, when they did the first job.

Little bit of, smell though not good, I don't think means, you have cooked the brakes. Smoke pouring out is another thing. I am suspicious of the calipers. ( and they will stick, unstick and then stick again) I would expect 25 to 40K out of a brake job)


Now I pretty much down shift to second, put on the 4 way flashers, and try and be as courteous as possible to let others pass. And even on the steepest passes that is usually only for a couple of miles..

Lastly, the shudder is probably due to a warped rotor, are brakes gone on both fronts? or just one side, if the later I would sure wonder about a stuck caliper.

[SidecarFlip]

When you smell them, it's too late. Damage done, wallet time.

[Old-Biscuit]

Tire were rotated ....shop not responsible for sidewall separation.
Stuff happens

Brakes.....
YOU burnt them up---overheat the rotors by staying on the brakes too long
You should have downshifted...then STAB the brakes to quickly decrease speed by 10 mph then get OFF the brakes.
Repeat ---and downshift again if necessary to CONTROL speed going downhill even if that means downshifting again and STABBING brakes

STAB Brakes------hard braking for SHORT durations to decrease speed quickly

[Tyler0215]

You overheated the new brakes. Either glazed the pads or warped the rotors.
I think you are paying for a brake job again.