Good Sam Club Open Roads Forum: Is a neutral ground bond plug safe
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 > Is a neutral ground bond plug safe

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opnspaces

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Posted: 08/07/19 11:41am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

This is just a curiosity question, I'm not getting shocked and I'm not planning on building a neutral ground plug.

I read on here about hot skin issues where a person is getting shocked by their RV and it's usually because the ground is broken somewhere in the shore power path.

I also read on here where people on generator need to create a neutral ground bond plug to trick their EMS into allowing power through.

The question then is does running a neutral ground plug cause a possible danger for a hot skin issue where the danger might not have existed without the plug?


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LittleBill

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Posted: 08/07/19 12:12pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

considering your house has neutral and ground bounded at the panel, its not a issue,

and considering there is no direct path to ground on a generator unless a ground rod is used, its even less of a risk.





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Posted: 08/07/19 01:30pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Neutral and ground should be bonded in one place. If you are plugged into shore power they wI'll be bonded at the panel.

If you are on generator or inverter power you need to make sure that you have a ground neutral bond at the power source.


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road-runner

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Posted: 08/07/19 02:03pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

opnspaces wrote:


The question then is does running a neutral ground plug cause a possible danger for a hot skin issue where the danger might not have existed without the plug?
The only thing I can think of offhand is if the hot were to somehow become earth grounded, then using the bonding plug with a generator would make the rv frame hot. This would also happen with a built-in generator since it's already bonded. I don't see how this could happen unless there's a faulty device plugged into the RV or generator, sitting outside and making an earth ground. An unbonded generator supplies an extra level of protection from a situation like this. On the other hand it masks detection of the fault.


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Slownsy

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Posted: 08/07/19 03:21pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

What is the EMS and why the neutral and ground bonding? On generator.
Frank.


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KD4UPL

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Posted: 08/07/19 03:43pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

No, it does not cause any risk. When running an RV from a generator nothing is really grounded anywhere unless you drive a rod and nobody does that.
If anything, it's a safety measure so that a short to ground in the RV will actually trip the breaker on the gen. With no bond plug it wouldn't trip the gen breaker. So, you're safer with the bond plug.

wa8yxm

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Posted: 08/07/19 04:31pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Hot Skin requires that the generator be earth grounded.

Normal wiring in an 30 amp RV the SKIN wants to be at 60 volts.. You can't draw much current but ti wants to be at 60 volts.. I can explain the reason but unless you have a background in electronics I'm not sure how well you will understand.

On a 50 amp RV plugged into 120 volts it's even higher Like 80. still low current though.

The bonding plug takes it to zero relative to neutral So it's safe Some devices need it. Some do not.


The reason

A device called a voltager divider..

Imagine the following DC circuit (I do not need I actually used it)

Battery 12 volt----Light bulb---X----Identical Light Bulb--- Ground

Now the voltage at X.. six volts Makes sense right (This is the SEE ME Day time Running Light system by the way, how it works. . Told you I used one)

Now.. for an AC circuit.
A capacitor is two pieces of conductive metal with an insulator (Even air) between them The symbol is --)|---

Now think about a length of ROMEX cable

There is a black wire next to a bare wire ( ---)|--- )

And there is a white wire on the other side of the bare wire ( ---)|--- )

Result is ---)|----G---|(---

60 volts at G.. Just like the 6 volts in the DC example

But very low current as they are very small Capicators.


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time2roll

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Posted: 08/07/19 04:58pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Yes neutral-ground bond is perfectly safe for an independent, portable or on-board power source. Many generators and inverters bond the neutral and ground when producing power. Same as utility power has neutral-ground bonded at the source (meter).


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opnspaces

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Posted: 08/07/19 06:17pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Thanks for trying to explain it to me. I think I'm slowly grasping it. Though I'm going to have to sit and mull it over for a while.[emoticon]


wa8yxm- I read your post a few times and then it hit me. When you're talking about 60v you're talking about an inductive current where the magnetic field from the electrons moving through the hot wire are creating current in the adjacent wire.

Then (and here's where I start to feel old) I remember running a test to prove this on the floor of my garage and posting it here on RV.net many years ago.

I can't find the post now, but I remember using a modified plug with only the hot wire and maybe a ground connected. Using a multimeter I could read 60v on the neutral wire.

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