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phemens

Montreal, Canada

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Posted: 08/10/19 05:22pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

LittleBill wrote:

do a drop voltage test, this will find the issue.

The other thing bothering me is your saying the microwave is turning off? the inverter isn't? the inverter should be shutting down to low voltage. the microwave has no idea about battery voltage


Yes, that’s something that has me curious. I did not change any of the stock settings on the inverter for low voltage or current. As soon as I changed the general setting for low voltage alarm from 12v to 11v, I was able to run everything for as long as I wanted. I have an email in to Samlex to check and will do the voltage drop test during the week to see. I don’t see anything obvious. An easy test would be to tie everything back to a single set of buses and see if the situation reproduces itself.


2012 Dutchman Denali 324LBS behind a 2006 Ford F-250 V10 out of Montreal
1 DW, 1 DD, 1 DS, 2 HD (Hyper Dogs)
1200w solar, 600AH LIFePO4, Yamaha EF2000 gen, Samlex 3000w Inverter

MEXICOWANDERER

las peñas, michoacan, mexico

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Posted: 08/10/19 06:17pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Those people do not have to LIVE with their work for decades. I do. And being I hold degrees in both electrical and chemistry disciplines I can afford to tell you why nothing known to manufacturing can equal the integrity of a proper soldering joint. When each of the thousands of strands of copper gets an oxidizing layer they insulate from themselves as well as from the wall of the termination, tin-plated or not.

Aggravation such as salt air or acids accelerates the degradation process.

In this interface between copper, tin-plated or not it is impossible to seal out corrosion on an atomic level. Not difficult, not hard but impossible.

When conductors are bonded via metallic cohesion (that would be solder)solid metal (tin-lead) is an IMPERMEABLE barrier including right down the atomic level. Oxygen, nor sulfur analogs can penetrate lead at the atomic level. Simple proof. inside the battery and exposed lead.

Contamination can penetrate a wire's insulation, turn the copper purple or green and if solder was used on the terminations, current will still flow unimpeded except by degradation to the actual circular mil degradation of the conductor by corrosion.

STRIP the insulation off of an Anchor brand wire cable after ten years. Crimped to the limit, adhesive lined heat shrink tubing used, everything is tinned.

You will find BLACKENED tarnished tin inside the squeezed terminal. Between the coated copper strands and the lug. The Kelley II, and every other commercial vessel I outfitted has the ORIGINAL battery terminals. The lugs have been scraped and sandpapered and they are butt ugly but they work like they are brand new. 59,000 feet of wire and 5 thousand terminals are still in service. Saltwater took its toll on the flying bridge console terminals but the owner failed to keep them greased. Almost 40 years old, fishing in the Aleutians for hake with Soviet processing ships, it has one of the best uptime records of any trawler.

My lessons are not some salesmanship hypothesis. Soldering is so superior it is almost embarrassing to argue against it. In an effort to make the wiring inside Quicksilver a forever icon, I used brand new excess wire from the space shuttle Endeavor / Discovery refit. Teflon, Silicone, Kapton insulated wire. The Kapton wire is 10AWG 3 conductor and its conductor finish is not tinned. The conductors are 100% AG plated with 24 Kt AU. I found out later someone at Lockheed caught hell because the company paid seventeen dollars per INCH for that wire and I purchased a spool wrapped with 400 plus feet. Pat Tuminaro, the local Snap-On tool dealer whined so loudly I gave him 100+ feet for his Cessna airplane. It is shielded with tin, then stainless steel armor then with DuPont Kapton. I immersed all of the spade terminals in 100% lead. Saltwater cannot touch it.

I am building a 150-amp Continuous duty battery charger for a friend. Every termination is soldered except for the HiRose plug and socket for external controls. The parts that must have screw connections are given a 2 coat 3M treatment followed by silicone grease. The interior of panel meters is given 2 coats of Boeshield T10, and switches are Electroswitch Mil-Spec gold plated covered with DeOxit 10. The unit has 11 voltage selections to use from -40F/c to 104F and a 12-hour timer. The charger has a complete suite of AC protection devices, MOV, avalanche, and gas tube discharge, voltage and temperature protection devices. It's the best I can manage.

I despise retrofit failures and limited life compromises. His grandkids will have a ball with it.

BFL13

Victoria, BC

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Posted: 08/10/19 06:36pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

What are the amps showing on the monitor while it runs the MW and shows 13v ???? You never said.

I suspect the inverter's neg input is from the wrong end of the monitor's shunt, so the inverter is "seeing" the lower voltage and the monitor is not.

Why that much of a drop, don't know. With my zoo of wiring, I get about a 0.7 drop running the MW. If the batts are 12.7v to start with, I see 12.0 while the MW is on. (I could do better than my zoo does, but don't need to, so it is what it is.)


1. 1991 Oakland 28DB Class C
on Ford E350-460-7.5 Gas EFI
See Profile for House electronics set-up.
2. 1991 Bighorn 9.5ft Truck Camper on 2003 Chev 2500HD 6.0 Gas

marcsbigfoot20b27

Phx

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Posted: 08/10/19 07:26pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Put a DVOM on the battery and where the wires go into the inverter and report back.
I ended up replacing the old little microwave with an LG inverter microwave.
You can cook at a true solid 50% or whatever % and you only use that much power.......not cycling 100%-0%-100%-0% etc.
it also cooks more evenly while sucking less amps when using at less than 100% power setting.

theoldwizard1

SE MI

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Posted: 08/11/19 09:04am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

jharrell wrote:

I disagree and prefer crimping, these people explain why:

https://www.evdrives.com/category_s/4013.htm

In the marine world crimping is preferred due to oxidation and soldering can prevent flex at the lug joint as well leading to fatigue.

Same it true in aviation. No solder, all crimps.

phemens

Montreal, Canada

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Posted: 08/11/19 09:38am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

BFL13 wrote:

What are the amps showing on the monitor while it runs the MW and shows 13v ???? You never said.

I suspect the inverter's neg input is from the wrong end of the monitor's shunt, so the inverter is "seeing" the lower voltage and the monitor is not.

Why that much of a drop, don't know. With my zoo of wiring, I get about a 0.7 drop running the MW. If the batts are 12.7v to start with, I see 12.0 while the MW is on. (I could do better than my zoo does, but don't need to, so it is what it is.)


Under load the Victron is showing about 128 amps of draw, the Samlex is showing 124, that seems pretty close. The Samlex is showing the 11.5 v under draw but isn’t throwing any low voltage warnings. First thing I will do is connect the inverter directly to the battery buses and see what I get.

BFL13

Victoria, BC

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Posted: 08/11/19 09:58am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

OK the inverter is on the monitor shunt properly. Main thing is to confirm the 11.5 and the 13v with a DMM.

ISTR the Victron monitor has an extra thing you have to connect that the Trimetric does not. Perhaps that needs a wiggle. The Samlex readings might be off from the same thing with its connector. Does it have its own shunt? Can't remember how that works.

phemens

Montreal, Canada

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Posted: 08/11/19 10:24am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Yes, the Victron has a shunt that the trimetric doesn’t. The Samlex doesn’t have anything like that, is just fused from the bus.

MEXICOWANDERER

las peñas, michoacan, mexico

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Posted: 08/11/19 10:36am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

***Same is true in electronics*** The company she applied for work 60 years ago found 95% of candidates COULD NOT BE TAUGHT HOW TO SOLDER. The company was SYSTRAN DONNER. Soldering is an art form few learn to master.

Just because someone or something decides to prohibit soldering it isn't because soldering is inferior, it's because there are too many butchers will try to fake a good connection. Don't give me the "vibration krap" I had to jump through hoops with the FAA PMA approval to be certified as an approved PMA electrical rebuilding facility. Where dozens upon dozens of connections are mounted directly to aircraft motors that shake worse than a paint mixing machine. How do you explain THAT? And these alternators and starters are run of the mill Ford, Prestolite, etc items. Stainless steel safety wiring makes sense. But an alternator fitted to a Lycoming has the same fasteners and technique inside, as a Ford Pinto.

That argument is as hollow as a rotten tree. Government? Make sense? Gimmee a break, people. "High altitude brushes?" For unpressurized aircraft? As far as soldering, better check assembly procedures for B2, B21, F35, F22 mil-spec. ??

The FAA had to STANDARDIZE the regulations for aircraft, it wisely chose to crimp instead of a wild-west multi allowance.

And the tens of thousands of failures due to solder glopping that I have seen in life-time warranty automotive products proved them right.

But to say crimping is SUPERIOR to soldering crosses the line -- it is absurd prima facia.

landyacht318

Near a large body of salty water

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Posted: 08/11/19 04:07pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Solder vs crimping debates are always amusing.

Both can be done very wrong and used as evidence that they are inferior methods by a tech down the road. Its always fun to point out the flaws in a previous worker's work. This is rife in likely every single manufacturing/craftsmanship related field the world over since humans could first grunt.

My opinion, is that crimping can be more idiot proof, with good tools.

It is possible to achieve visual perfection with either method yet yield a poor electrical or mechanical connection

Best possible connections, solder.
Best connections when time is money and proper tools involved and 10 years is more than good enough, crimp.

But this is my opinion, not shouted as fact. opinions shouted as fact often do the opposite their shouter intends.

Ego is a funny thing, especially when there is a keyboard style anonymity involved.

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