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Grit dog

Black Diamond, WA

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Joined: 05/06/2013

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Posted: 08/15/19 05:41pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

HighwayPilot wrote:

If you read the ordinance "8.10.010 it states no camping" but if you continue below it also reads...."8.10.020 Storage of personal property in public area"."It shall be unlawful for any person to store personal property including camp paraphernalia..." Looks like you cannot even store ie: keep any item that could be used for camping as defined by there own definition of "camping paraphernalia" at all in any vehicle. while on "Any park, any street or any publicly owned parking lot...." What are the residents and travelers to do? I called the Lacey police, city attorneys office and both have no clear answer to the specificity of this ordinance. Whats scary is that it gives each individual law enforcement officer sole discretion as to how to interpret this ordinance. Has anyone ever heard of Predetermined disposition?, or even having a "Bad Day"? "generally means an outcome determined ahead of time." What about when you travel in your RV (of any type) to visit family and you happen to find your self on their streets, park or publicly owned parking lot you could be charged with a violation because you are "Camping" ie: occupying a camp facility (inside your vehicle ) with camp paraphernalia". ie: (pillows, blanket, cooking facilities or equipment) and god help you if you have" Stored" in your bays or trunk any persona items and/or camp paraphernalia. Depending on the officer's mood or predetermined disposition you can be in violation of Ordinance 1549 of the City of Lacey, Wa. This Ordinance needs to be specific!



LOFL at this post. Do you actually not understand the intention of this new regulation or are you being intentionally overly literal?

Please tell us you didn't wast the time of the City employees and law enforcement on the opposite side of the country asking inane question about something that doesn't affect or concern you.....


"Yes Sir, Oct 10 1888, Those poor school children froze to death in their tracks. They did not even find them until Spring. Especially hard hit were the ones who had to trek uphill to school both ways, with no shoes." -Bert A.

magicbus

Nantucket Island, MA

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Joined: 06/16/2002

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Posted: 08/15/19 06:40pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Man I must be getting old... had to google LOFL [emoticon]

Dave


Current: 2018 Winnebago Era A
Previous: Selene 49 Trawler
Previous: Country Coach Allure 36


Retired JSO

Northeast Florida

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Joined: 01/28/2009

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Posted: 08/15/19 07:59pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Grit dog wrote:

HighwayPilot wrote:

If you read the ordinance "8.10.010 it states no camping" but if you continue below it also reads...."8.10.020 Storage of personal property in public area"."It shall be unlawful for any person to store personal property including camp paraphernalia..." Looks like you cannot even store ie: keep any item that could be used for camping as defined by there own definition of "camping paraphernalia" at all in any vehicle. while on "Any park, any street or any publicly owned parking lot...." What are the residents and travelers to do? I called the Lacey police, city attorneys office and both have no clear answer to the specificity of this ordinance. Whats scary is that it gives each individual law enforcement officer sole discretion as to how to interpret this ordinance. Has anyone ever heard of Predetermined disposition?, or even having a "Bad Day"? "generally means an outcome determined ahead of time." What about when you travel in your RV (of any type) to visit family and you happen to find your self on their streets, park or publicly owned parking lot you could be charged with a violation because you are "Camping" ie: occupying a camp facility (inside your vehicle ) with camp paraphernalia". ie: (pillows, blanket, cooking facilities or equipment) and god help you if you have" Stored" in your bays or trunk any persona items and/or camp paraphernalia. Depending on the officer's mood or predetermined disposition you can be in violation of Ordinance 1549 of the City of Lacey, Wa. This Ordinance needs to be specific!



LOFL at this post. Do you actually not understand the intention of this new regulation or are you being intentionally overly literal?

Please tell us you didn't wast the time of the City employees and law enforcement on the opposite side of the country asking inane question about something that doesn't affect or concern you.....


Washington State along with many other states and cities across the US are trying to keep the homeless quacks from setting up camp. Charleston SC had over 500 camped under I-26. These people are offered help, they refuse and they panhandle. Offer them shelter, they only accept when it’s cold. Offer them a job and they refuse. What’s also bad, some of these “Bums” are receiving SSI and others MIlitary retirement. I think it’s great to run these jerks away from public areas since they don’t want help.





Deb and Ed M

SW MI & Space Coast, FL USA

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Posted: 08/16/19 07:33am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Retired JSO wrote:



Washington State along with many other states and cities across the US are trying to keep the homeless quacks from setting up camp. Charleston SC had over 500 camped under I-26. These people are offered help, they refuse and they panhandle. Offer them shelter, they only accept when it’s cold. Offer them a job and they refuse. What’s also bad, some of these “Bums” are receiving SSI and others MIlitary retirement. I think it’s great to run these jerks away from public areas since they don’t want help.


I think, above all the reasons listed, the authorities are concerned with sanitation? That many people gathered with no bathroom facilities, is a health hazard, especially if they are camped near water. Or - if the homeless are gathered at a park in order to use a bathroom - it makes that park "unfriendly" for local families to visit. I think we will see more ordinances like the one cited. Kicking the can down the road to the next community doesn't solve the homeless problem, but it protects the local residents.

JaxDad

Greater Toronto Area

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Posted: 08/16/19 08:04am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Deb and Ed M wrote:

Retired JSO wrote:



Washington State along with many other states and cities across the US are trying to keep the homeless quacks from setting up camp. Charleston SC had over 500 camped under I-26. These people are offered help, they refuse and they panhandle. Offer them shelter, they only accept when it’s cold. Offer them a job and they refuse. What’s also bad, some of these “Bums” are receiving SSI and others MIlitary retirement. I think it’s great to run these jerks away from public areas since they don’t want help.


I think, above all the reasons listed, the authorities are concerned with sanitation? That many people gathered with no bathroom facilities, is a health hazard, especially if they are camped near water. Or - if the homeless are gathered at a park in order to use a bathroom - it makes that park "unfriendly" for local families to visit. I think we will see more ordinances like the one cited. Kicking the can down the road to the next community doesn't solve the homeless problem, but it protects the local residents.


It's not just that, in this day & age even governments are being held accountable for actions, or in situations like this, lack of action.

All it would take is one person to be seriously injured, get sick from lack of sanitation, or heaven forbid, die, and the lawyers and bleeding-hearts would be all over it.

No level of government wants its taxpayers on the hook for something like that.

mgirardo

Brunswick, GA

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Posted: 08/16/19 08:07am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Tvov wrote:

He was interpreting the ordinance as not allowing someone to have a sleeping bag in their car when driving around. I don't see that at all in the ordinance. He seems to be really stretching the "storage" part.


I agree. I don't believe it means you can't have a sleeping bag in your car. I think it means you can't leave your tent and other camping gear in a heap in a public park to use later on.

I hope our town never NEEDS to adopt this type of ordinance. I would not be happy with people setting up camp throughout town especially since we have about 5 campgrounds in the county.

-Michael


Michael Girardo
2017 Jayco Jayflight Bungalow 40BHQS Destination Trailer
2009 Jayco Greyhawk 31FS Class C Motorhome (previously owned)
2006 Rockwood Roo 233 Hybrid Travel Trailer (previously owned)
1995 Jayco Eagle 12KB pop-up (previously owned)

paddykernahan

Westland, MI

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Posted: 08/18/19 08:51am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

$1,000 fine, are you kidding me?
Why not make it a $10,000 fine?





JRscooby

Indepmo

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Posted: 08/18/19 11:21am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

RV daytrader wrote:

well shoot...If I was a homeless person I would camp there come the cold weather and let them jail me for 3 months...get a nice warm cell and 3 meals a day!


Bet you have not been homeless and trying to get out or in jail.


Walaby wrote:

I read the law, and totally agree with it. Have no issues as written.

Several folks, including Mr youtube guy sure take it to a ridiculous level of interpretation.

Highway pilot - the ordinance says store in a public place. Your car's trunk, or your RV, or the back seat of your car is not a public place. Good grief.. get ahold of yourself, and don't contribute to the conspiracy.

I don't think you really called the Lacey police or city attorney.

Mike


Bedroll in backseat is not stored in public place? True. But if the car is parked on a public street? Likely you are shopping, or eating, not camping, but if it is up to a cop to decide, it is scary to me. Most think all cops are good all the time. I have decided they are human, some good, some marginal. But some of the marginal, think because they have some power, nobody should question them, and this can lead to abuse of power.
Like most laws, a cop thinks you are in violation, you can defend yourself. If you prove you did not violate the law, there might still be a lot of expense, and it does not come out of the cop's pocket.

JaxDad

Greater Toronto Area

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Posted: 08/18/19 11:54am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

JRscooby wrote:

Walaby wrote:

I read the law, and totally agree with it. Have no issues as written.

Several folks, including Mr youtube guy sure take it to a ridiculous level of interpretation.


Bedroll in backseat is not stored in public place? True. But if the car is parked on a public street?


You’re grasping for non-existent straws.

The inside of your vehicle is not a public place. In plain view, yes, but definitely private space. Otherwise there would be no need for consent to search.

Grit dog

Black Diamond, WA

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Posted: 08/18/19 02:58pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

This is sooo not about big brother writing you a ticket for stopping in Lacey in your RV, but makes for good conversation for the conspiracy theorists.

* This post was edited 08/18/19 11:28pm by Grit dog *

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