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Huntindog

Phoenix AZ

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Joined: 04/08/2002

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Posted: 08/31/19 12:34pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

nickthehunter wrote:

Huntindog wrote:

...But paying off, your 6% loans results in 6% earnings, garuanteed, risk and tax free...
Clearly a false statement. You get zero earnings by paying a loan off. You get a savings of your own money you are not spending. Same as making a decision not to buy a snickers bar, money not spent, zero money earned. What you did do however, was lose the ability to earn potentially significant gains on the money you just spent to pay off that loan. And remember, you still have the ability to pay off the loan any time your gains no longer justify having it. In the meantime, you can gain very real earnings on which I gladly pay the tax, as I laugh all the way to the bank. My tax on 8.59% earnings is less than 2%.
Must be new math. So you are saving money... That is the same as earning it... The big difference is it is tax free, and risk free. There are NO investments paying over 8% that are risk free. You CAN and people DO lose money on such investments. You yourself only give your stats for the last 9 years.. How did 2008 work out for you?


Huntindog
100% boondocking
2010 Palomino Sabre 30 BHDS
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mich800

Pontiac, MI

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Posted: 08/31/19 02:28pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Huntindog wrote:

nickthehunter wrote:

Huntindog wrote:

...But paying off, your 6% loans results in 6% earnings, garuanteed, risk and tax free...
Clearly a false statement. You get zero earnings by paying a loan off. You get a savings of your own money you are not spending. Same as making a decision not to buy a snickers bar, money not spent, zero money earned. What you did do however, was lose the ability to earn potentially significant gains on the money you just spent to pay off that loan. And remember, you still have the ability to pay off the loan any time your gains no longer justify having it. In the meantime, you can gain very real earnings on which I gladly pay the tax, as I laugh all the way to the bank. My tax on 8.59% earnings is less than 2%.
Must be new math. So you are saving money... That is the same as earning it... The big difference is it is tax free, and risk free. There are NO investments paying over 8% that are risk free. You CAN and people DO lose money on such investments. You yourself only give your stats for the last 9 years.. How did 2008 work out for you?


Nick is actually correct. In simplest terms. If you have $100k in your gun safe and don't spend any of it, did you earn $100k that year? Spending frugally allows you to earn money by investing what you did not spend. But the simple act of not spending does nothing. If fact it is a net loser adjusting for inflation but very safe from market risk.

Huntindog

Phoenix AZ

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Posted: 08/31/19 03:48pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

mich800 wrote:

Huntindog wrote:

nickthehunter wrote:

Huntindog wrote:

...But paying off, your 6% loans results in 6% earnings, garuanteed, risk and tax free...
Clearly a false statement. You get zero earnings by paying a loan off. You get a savings of your own money you are not spending. Same as making a decision not to buy a snickers bar, money not spent, zero money earned. What you did do however, was lose the ability to earn potentially significant gains on the money you just spent to pay off that loan. And remember, you still have the ability to pay off the loan any time your gains no longer justify having it. In the meantime, you can gain very real earnings on which I gladly pay the tax, as I laugh all the way to the bank. My tax on 8.59% earnings is less than 2%.
Must be new math. So you are saving money... That is the same as earning it... The big difference is it is tax free, and risk free. There are NO investments paying over 8% that are risk free. You CAN and people DO lose money on such investments. You yourself only give your stats for the last 9 years.. How did 2008 work out for you?


Nick is actually correct. In simplest terms. If you have $100k in your gun safe and don't spend any of it, did you earn $100k that year? Spending frugally allows you to earn money by investing what you did not spend. But the simple act of not spending does nothing. If fact it is a net loser adjusting for inflation but very safe from market risk.


It also allows you to lose money, including your principle.
I notice how Nick does not talk about 2008, when just about everyone lost money on investments... True, most people have done alright, including myself since then, but even in a bull market, there are losers. In fact in todays market, it is harder than ever before to find safe investments that will pay more than what inflation and taxes will take.



Me Again

Sunbird(Wa)/snowbird(Az)

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Posted: 08/31/19 05:15pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Huntindog wrote:

In fact in todays market, it is harder than ever before to find safe investments that will pay more than what inflation and taxes will take.



That is why we only meet annually with our financial advisers. I seldom go online to look at things. We take a same each month to supplement our retirements and SSA, without cutting into principle. We pay cash up front for trips and items we want, and sleep good at night. Last loan was for half of the cost of the Bighorn. The house sold a few months later and we paid off that loan. The Boat(sold) became the truck in 2015.

For anyone out that still young, start saving NOW!


2015 RAM 3500 CC SB SRW Our Rig New 2017 Bighorn 3575el. Commuter trailer 2019 Laredo 225MK. Retired and enjoying it!


larry barnhart

wenatchee. wa usa

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Posted: 08/31/19 05:35pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I see our's everyday . I like to know how we are doing. I could take money out and buy a new chev truck but can't wear out the 05. Starting young is also my advice.


chevman


chevman
2001 35 ft avalon alpenlite RK
2005 3500 2wd duramax CC dually
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kellem

Shenandoah valley,VA

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Posted: 08/31/19 06:51pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I'm retiring early because of how well the stock market has done....unless it's because of my adviser. Lol

nickthehunter

Southgate, MI

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Joined: 07/18/2005

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Posted: 08/31/19 08:47pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Huntindog wrote:

mich800 wrote:

Huntindog wrote:

nickthehunter wrote:

Huntindog wrote:

...But paying off, your 6% loans results in 6% earnings, garuanteed, risk and tax free...
Clearly a false statement. You get zero earnings by paying a loan off. You get a savings of your own money you are not spending. Same as making a decision not to buy a snickers bar, money not spent, zero money earned. What you did do however, was lose the ability to earn potentially significant gains on the money you just spent to pay off that loan. And remember, you still have the ability to pay off the loan any time your gains no longer justify having it. In the meantime, you can gain very real earnings on which I gladly pay the tax, as I laugh all the way to the bank. My tax on 8.59% earnings is less than 2%.
Must be new math. So you are saving money... That is the same as earning it... The big difference is it is tax free, and risk free. There are NO investments paying over 8% that are risk free. You CAN and people DO lose money on such investments. You yourself only give your stats for the last 9 years.. How did 2008 work out for you?


Nick is actually correct. In simplest terms. If you have $100k in your gun safe and don't spend any of it, did you earn $100k that year? Spending frugally allows you to earn money by investing what you did not spend. But the simple act of not spending does nothing. If fact it is a net loser adjusting for inflation but very safe from market risk.


It also allows you to lose money, including your principle.
I notice how Nick does not talk about 2008, when just about everyone lost money on investments... True, most people have done alright, including myself since then, but even in a bull market, there are losers. In fact in todays market, it is harder than ever before to find safe investments that will pay more than what inflation and taxes will take.

Let me answer your question about 2008. Just Google The worse 10 years in stock market history and you'll have your answer. But no matter what I say, your mind is already made up and not open. So be it. But you really shouldn't be giving finacial advice if you think saving money and earning money is the same thing.

Just remember, I still have the money to pay off the loans any day I want plus I get to keep the accumulated earnings.

Actually, I want to thank you. It's people like you so afraid of losing money who play it so safe that you will take peanuts for return on your investments that allow people like me to borrow that money and only pay peanuts to you while i keep my money invested in more reasonable ways (remember that Google search).

Yup I lost money in 2008. Even worse I lost a whole ton of money last year. Guess what, I've already made back everyhing I lost last year, plus a boat load more on top of that this year.

So excuse me while I go pay my taxes.

* This post was last edited 08/31/19 09:16pm by nickthehunter *   View edit history

Grit dog

Black Diamond, WA

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Posted: 08/31/19 11:03pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

^So the moral of this story is you're both smart men and good with your money.
I see both sides of the story.
I hate watching investments. Like going to the casino, except you never leave and the odds of winning small are better.
I also can see the advantage of making more with your money than you would by not spending it or by paying interest rates.

We're talking about car loans though, right? New cars in particular?
Interest in general on new cars has been and is still somewhere between fairly low and 0% for a long time. Most of the time anyways as long as you have good credit.
That said, I like paying cash for pretty much anything but a house. BUT, only because we're fortunate enough that it's possible for us to do that without significant financial impact. It may not be the absolute most you can make on your dollar, but it's nice knowing you owe nothing and have nothing at risk at the same time.


"Yes Sir, Oct 10 1888, Those poor school children froze to death in their tracks. They did not even find them until Spring. Especially hard hit were the ones who had to trek uphill to school both ways, with no shoes." -Bert A.

js218

on the road

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Posted: 09/01/19 05:47am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

took the biggest gamble of my life in 2008, Ford stock dropped below a dollar invested 500k and Ford has made me enough money that I retired in 2012 totally debt free and will remain debt free until I'm pushing up daisy's.


2017 Haulmark 45' Super C 600hp, 12 speed I shift transmission, tandem drive axles, 3 stage engine brake, towing 26' trailer with an 08 explorer inside.
Jim

hvac

Michigan

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Joined: 01/15/2012

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Posted: 09/01/19 09:31am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

We do know that death taxes and very expensive vehicle repair bill are a constant. Never goes away. So, what is your comfort zone for repairs to an aging powertrain? For me, new and totally covered. Priceless.

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