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 > Who has switched from a '16+ max tow F150 to a '16+ HD F150?

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mhamershock

Forest Grove, OR

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Posted: 08/28/19 12:41pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I went from a 2011 Max to a 2018 SCREW HDPP, both 3.5TT. It's night and day better. I tow 27' (33 overall) at about 8500 lbs. The HDPP handles it with ease.With 4 people, 3 dogs, a topper, and 1,000 lb tongue weight I am under all limits for the truck. Yes, I've scaled it. Have dealt with 40+ MPH crosswinds along the Oregon coast. Husky Centerline TS hitch and no issues. I've posted a number of tow reviews here. The HDPP is an outstanding tow platform, good for up to 9500 lbs IMHO.

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IdaD

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Posted: 08/28/19 04:42pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

johndeerefarmer wrote:

Groover wrote:

I believe that the main component that adds stability to the max payload package is the LT tires. If you order a 4wd drive F150 you can specify the LT tires as an option for $300 on any version. For the max tow rating you have to have 20" wheels and those are not available with max payload. It is probable that the larger rims add stability too and you can retrofit LT tires to them, it just costs more. The only other features that would add stability are the springs and shocks and you can always change out the shocks and add air springs. I did all of the above on my 2016 F150 and it is nearly as stable as a 2019 F250 that I had for a while plus I can let the air out of the air springs and have a softer ride when empty.

I understand your frustration with finding a max payload package on the lot. I have never seen one. However, when I was asking about the max payload package someone on this site did offer to let me drive theirs to feel the difference. It was a bit of a long drive so I didn't take them up on it but you might be luckier. You might want give a better idea of where you live in Texas if you want to try for that. As much as Ford like to advertise having the largest payload of any half ton truck they should do a lot more to help people buy it.


I have done extensive research on the difference between the two. I posted this on the truck forum a year or so ago:

HDPP truck vs Max Tow truck


The max tow ecoboost F150 also has a 9.75" gearset. Both the HDPP and the “regular” gearset have 34 splines. Only the Raptor gearset is heavier as it has 35 splines. Other than getting a 3.73 instead of a 3.55 the only other difference is that Ford calls for slightly more fluid in the HDPP diff. The axles and axle bearings are identical.

Wheels are no longer 7 lug on the HDPP. Now they all have 6 lug. The HDPP wheels are rated at 2101 lbs vs 1825 lbs for the regular wheel.

If you get the 18” tires you can get the same Goodyear Wrangler AT “c” load range tire that is an option on the HDPP F150

The Supercrew HDPP uses 0.110” thick frame and the other Supercrew 157 uses 0.100”

The max tow trucks have the same transmission cooler as well.

So the real differences between the two are:

Heavier springs.

3.73 gear over 3.55 but the rear is no stronger.

Slightly thicker frame by .01”

Wheels are rated at about 200 lbs more capacity each but the HDPP wheel isn’t even capable of the capacity of the GY Wrangler AT “C” range tire.

I already have C range tires, and super springs on the rear. I guess I should just buy the heavier front springs and put them on my max tow truck. With a 10 speed having a 3.73 over 3.55 wouldn't make much of a difference


So you can basically get the same result with a suspension upgrade of some sort and possibly better tires/wheels. Not much difference.


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Edd505

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Posted: 08/28/19 05:46pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Keep the F250 and don't worry about driving a smaller truck. Why spend the extra $$ to get a max tow or wanta be F250?


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AlmostAnOldGuy

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Posted: 08/28/19 08:52pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

As you already know the HDPP has heavier axles, heavier suspension, heavier shocks and LT E tires. Provided you were staying within rear axle rating and you already had LT E tires I would consider Timbrens which will provide additional suspension without impacting the unloaded ride and putting on some Bilstien shocks. That would give you a pretty good idea of how the HDPP would handle before making a large $ decision. I would run a good WD hitch.

Good luck,
Stu

* This post was edited 08/28/19 09:02pm by AlmostAnOldGuy *


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Grit dog

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Posted: 08/28/19 11:51pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

^ No, not heavier axle. And like you're suggesting, Tires and shocks are replaceable wear items and more springs are cheap.
Not much difference when you look at it with eyes open.


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JIMNLIN

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Posted: 08/29/19 05:58am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Ford gives the F150 three different frames thickness and modulus numbers.

.087 thickness.....4.95 LD modulus
.100 thickness.....5.73 HD modulus
.110 thickness.....6.28 HPP modulus.

Depending on which frame one can't say just slap some heavier spring on the truck and it becomes a HDPP.

Also Fleet Ford specs show the F150 has a ...
8.80 rear axle
9.75 rear axle
9.75HD rear axle.
They don't give differences in a 9.75 and 9.75HD


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Groover

Pulaski, TN

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Posted: 08/29/19 06:57am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

JIMNLIN wrote:

Ford gives the F150 three different frames thickness and modulus numbers.

.087 thickness.....4.95 LD modulus
.100 thickness.....5.73 HD modulus
.110 thickness.....6.28 HPP modulus.

Depending on which frame one can't say just slap some heavier spring on the truck and it becomes a HDPP.

Also Fleet Ford specs show the F150 has a ...
8.80 rear axle
9.75 rear axle
9.75HD rear axle.
They don't give differences in a 9.75 and 9.75HD


The OP seems to be concerned with towing stability rather than carrying capacity. The heavier frame of the HDPP seems to be aimed at carrying capacity so for his purposes beefing up a standard truck may be the better solution. Especially since Ford rates the HDPP version to tow less than the standard with Max Towing. Personally, I suspect that the lower tow ratings are due to not having a strong enough connection between the tire and the axle. That sure seems like it would be an easy thing for Ford to correct. Worst case, just put an F250 rear axle under the F150. It's been done before, some friends used to have Chevy 1500's with 8 bolt rims. These days though it might mess up fuel economy ratings.

johndeerefarmer

Texas

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Posted: 08/29/19 08:18am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

AlmostAnOldGuy wrote:

As you already know the HDPP has heavier axles, heavier suspension, heavier shocks and LT E tires. Provided you were staying within rear axle rating and you already had LT E tires I would consider Timbrens which will provide additional suspension without impacting the unloaded ride and putting on some Bilstien shocks. That would give you a pretty good idea of how the HDPP would handle before making a large $ decision. I would run a good WD hitch.

Good luck,
Stu


I have Bilstein 4600's on the rear, I haven't replaced the front yet.

I just can't imagine how having a stiffer suspension would help with stability in the wind- which is my problem. Now if I was hitting a bump and it was bouncing excessively or from side to side I would say I needed heavier springs,etc. That's not the problem.

I have bad tendonitis in both elbows, the solid front axle of the F250 transfers dips, bumps in the road back to the steering wheel. This excessive movement of the steering wheel increases the inflammation in my elbows so I can't drive as far. The EPS in the F150 is way better. On the F250 (I have had several) I have tried dual steering stabilizers as well as the Bilstein adjustable ($475 one). They don't help much at all

Both of my campers are fifth wheels


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Groover

Pulaski, TN

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Posted: 08/29/19 09:11am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

johndeerefarmer wrote:

AlmostAnOldGuy wrote:

As you already know the HDPP has heavier axles, heavier suspension, heavier shocks and LT E tires. Provided you were staying within rear axle rating and you already had LT E tires I would consider Timbrens which will provide additional suspension without impacting the unloaded ride and putting on some Bilstien shocks. That would give you a pretty good idea of how the HDPP would handle before making a large $ decision. I would run a good WD hitch.

Good luck,
Stu


I have Bilstein 4600's on the rear, I haven't replaced the front yet.

I just can't imagine how having a stiffer suspension would help with stability in the wind- which is my problem. Now if I was hitting a bump and it was bouncing excessively or from side to side I would say I needed heavier springs,etc. That's not the problem.

I have bad tendonitis in both elbows, the solid front axle of the F250 transfers dips, bumps in the road back to the steering wheel. This excessive movement of the steering wheel increases the inflammation in my elbows so I can't drive as far. The EPS in the F150 is way better. On the F250 (I have had several) I have tried dual steering stabilizers as well as the Bilstein adjustable ($475 one). They don't help much at all

Both of my campers are fifth wheels


First, I am very impressed with the amount of work that you have already put into this.

It sounds like side to side motion is your major issue. 20" wheels are the quickest and easiest thing to do. The next step would be a panhard rod but all I could find in a quick search is a generic that has to be custom fitted.

Panhard rod

If it is rocking side to side a heavy duty sway bar might help as would air bags on separate channels.
sway bar

I know that many airbags interfere with a gooseneck hitch but I don't know about 5th wheel hitches. I did install a gooseneck hitch on a 2013 F150 with Airride 5000lb XL airbags without issue except that they are way too stiff when the truck is empty. My preffered Airride 2000lb airbags are not compatible with that gooseneck hitch.

On the subject of gooseneck hitches you could convert the trailer from 5th wheel to gooseneck and it wouldn't be able to transmit rocking motion to the truck plus the hitch point is lower which would also help. I have no idea if that would create any stability issues with a tall camper but my daughter loves her gooseneck horse trailer with a small living area.

johndeerefarmer

Texas

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Posted: 08/29/19 10:57am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Groover wrote:

johndeerefarmer wrote:

AlmostAnOldGuy wrote:

As you already know the HDPP has heavier axles, heavier suspension, heavier shocks and LT E tires. Provided you were staying within rear axle rating and you already had LT E tires I would consider Timbrens which will provide additional suspension without impacting the unloaded ride and putting on some Bilstien shocks. That would give you a pretty good idea of how the HDPP would handle before making a large $ decision. I would run a good WD hitch.

Good luck,
Stu


I have Bilstein 4600's on the rear, I haven't replaced the front yet.

I just can't imagine how having a stiffer suspension would help with stability in the wind- which is my problem. Now if I was hitting a bump and it was bouncing excessively or from side to side I would say I needed heavier springs,etc. That's not the problem.

I have bad tendonitis in both elbows, the solid front axle of the F250 transfers dips, bumps in the road back to the steering wheel. This excessive movement of the steering wheel increases the inflammation in my elbows so I can't drive as far. The EPS in the F150 is way better. On the F250 (I have had several) I have tried dual steering stabilizers as well as the Bilstein adjustable ($475 one). They don't help much at all

Both of my campers are fifth wheels


First, I am very impressed with the amount of work that you have already put into this.

It sounds like side to side motion is your major issue. 20" wheels are the quickest and easiest thing to do. The next step would be a panhard rod but all I could find in a quick search is a generic that has to be custom fitted.

Panhard rod

If it is rocking side to side a heavy duty sway bar might help as would air bags on separate channels.
sway bar

I know that many airbags interfere with a gooseneck hitch but I don't know about 5th wheel hitches. I did install a gooseneck hitch on a 2013 F150 with Airride 5000lb XL airbags without issue except that they are way too stiff when the truck is empty. My preffered Airride 2000lb airbags are not compatible with that gooseneck hitch.

On the subject of gooseneck hitches you could convert the trailer from 5th wheel to gooseneck and it wouldn't be able to transmit rocking motion to the truck plus the hitch point is lower which would also help. I have no idea if that would create any stability issues with a tall camper but my daughter loves her gooseneck horse trailer with a small living area.


Hi, thanks for the response.

The F250 already has 20's on it. The F150 has 18's.

Rocking motion by my trailers isn't the problem it's the wind causing the RV and truck to sway. I think the aluminum bodied F150 is too light in relation to the weight of the RV so the wind affects it more. The F250 which weighs probably 3000 lbs more is way more stable in the wind.

So I am stuck between driving the F250 and tearing up my arms but having a stable ride or take the F150 which is better on my arms but get blowed all over the road.

I had airbags on the F150 but took them off because I thought they might be contributing to the issue. I added Super Springs. I see no difference between either.

I looked into a rear sway bar but decided it wouldn't help as my issue is only when the winds are about lets say 15 mph which here in Texas is most of the time

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