building new campground

[gasjarvi]

My husband, son and I are thinking of building a small, no frills campground on our farm after we get out of dairying later this month. We want to cater to the RVers looking for a safe, comfortable spot to overnight. We do not want to have seasonals nor resident campers. We will start with level sights with water and electric and a dump station and a small bathhouse for $30 a night. Large pull thrus will be located in a grassy field just as you come into the park. Sites for longer stays will be set back further with trees and bushes around. The campground will be located behind our farm brewery. We are located 8 miles from the NYS Thruway in Central NY. I was wondering if I could get any feedback on this idea and some suggestions on what we could/should offer.

[westernrvparkow]

Executive wrote:
Like BjBear, I too, looked up the area. I can see 'destination' written all over it. We can go two weeks with the black tank and can stretch the grey with shorter showeThers. Where you are, I would envision at least a one week stay to really enjoy the area. Harvest Hosts are geared to only overnight stays, $70/yr sponsored by FMCA, another avenue to explore to getting the word out. Best of luck and let us know when you're up and running, we'll be your first customer.....Dennis

You are kind of making the case against building the park. You had never heard of Ilion until this thread started. You would never have considered visiting there had this thread not shown up. In a couple of more days this thread will be relegated to the digital dust bin of the archived posts.
Every basic amenity a park does not offer eliminates potential guests. Don't have 50 Amp service, lose some customers. Same with full hookup sites, cable TV, Wifi service, pull thru sites, showers and toilets. Seldom do people avoid a park with those features, but many will pass by a park that lacks one of those that they desire.
The attractions mentioned by the potential park owners were things like 40 minutes to Cooperstown, 20 minutes to Vernon Downs and Casino, possibly a location for auto racing fans when there is a big race and a few miles from the Erie Canal (not a museum or a historical site, just the canal, which is a ditch with water) That smacks of the AT&T commercials where the surgeon and the Dutch Translator are "just OK". Those don't appear to me to be big enough draws to make a viable business. Way back someone mentioned hiring a professional park consultant to evaluate the viability of a park at that location. That would be my suggestion before investing a lot of money in construction.

[Bill_Satellite]

The OP just needs to keep in mind who the parks customer would be. They ARE NOT going to get any overnight visitors looking for a quick easy stop while traveling from point A to point B along an Interstate highway. 20-40 miles farther or shorter and you will find an RV park within a mile or 2 of the Interstate.
As a destination I suspect that any RV park has done their due diligence to discover if there is any reason an RVer would be interested in visiting the attractions in the area. If you are interested in only overnighters without the expectation of a few days stay, 8 miles from the Interstate is NOT going to work.

[ArchHoagland]

Just noticed you are in Ilion, NY. Used to work for Univac, their main plant was there.

Are you planning on keeping the RV park open year round or closing in the winter?

[Executive45]

Like BjBear, I too, looked up the area. I can see 'destination' written all over it. We can go two weeks with the black tank and can stretch the grey with shorter showers. Where you are, I would envision at least a one week stay to really enjoy the area. Harvest Hosts are geared to only overnight stays, $70/yr sponsored by FMCA, another avenue to explore to getting the word out. Best of luck and let us know when you're up and running, we'll be your first customer.....Dennis

[bjbear]

valhalla360 wrote:

The whole 8 miles thing:
- If it's a destination park, sure no big deal.
- If it's a quick overnight, yeah, it's costs me 16 miles round trip, so yeah, I might push on 25 miles to the next park that is near the highway. Worst case, it cuts 25 miles off the next day's travel.

Not being realistic is a big part of why most businesses fail in the first few years.

I looked at LLion, NY on Google Earth. I see a very pleasant place with not only Highway 90, but several less busy highways that might appeal to many. Lots of little towns to explore and I am sure some historic sites, parks, forests, etc.

I am thinking that instead of looking at the extremes (destination vs. overnight), maybe look at a "Mini-Destination" aimed at travelers who aren't in a big hurry and would enjoy a 1 - 3 day stop. If they featured the brewery and maybe had other products from local farms, artists, etc. Concentrate on basic amenities which are kept clean and in good condition. Don't need anything really fancy in this case. I can see it would appeal to many. Hard to tell if it would be enough to sustain the business, but worth a try.

As others have said, they need to build a comprehensive business plan which includes accurate costs, clear definition of regulatory/tax requirements and their best guess at how the market will respond.

I say go forward and wish them best of luck.

[Bert_Ackerman]

ferndaleflyer wrote:
Developers just bought about 7000ac of farms near me that have been ag exempt in like forever----Now do you really expect me to believe that since they aren't going to farm it but develop it into housing they are going to pay back taxes for all the previous time when it was farmed? Get real, I don't think that would fly anywhere.

It's called a rollback tax and you don't pay back taxes for all the time the land was farmed, there are limits/cutoffs. It's typically back for a certain amount of time and it varies. Texas is 5 years as an example, or at least it was when we dealt with it back in the early 00's developing a Strip Center.

[ferndaleflyer]

Developers just bought about 7000ac of farms near me that have been ag exempt in like forever----Now do you really expect me to believe that since they aren't going to farm it but develop it into housing they are going to pay back taxes for all the previous time when it was farmed? Get real, I don't think that would fly anywhere.

[William_B]

Walaby wrote:
As a comparison, at least in terms of a stopover location, here's a campground that is about 5-6 miles off the interestate

http://www.benchmarkrv.net/index.html

I've stayed there once on my way to Texas, and plan on staying there again on my Christmas Texas trip.

It's $30 per night, but with Good Sams, I think it was $25 or $28

Concrete pads... all pull through's, Full Hook Up including cable and wifi.

Now, if you have a 50 amp rig, there is a slight up charge, EVEN if you say you will use the 30 amp plug. It was only a couple bucks, no big deal really.
We use this park often when we are moving from west to east, no facilities, full 50 amp hookups, and we don't mind the distance off the highway.

It's a decent place to stop over night. Fairly close to the freeway. So, I would say comparable to what OP might be thinking. Just an example of what you might want to be prepared to offer/plan for. Didn't take up a lot of room. Two rows if I remember correctly.

Mike

[William_B]

time2roll wrote:

William B wrote:

time2roll wrote:
For overnighters I would go with 30 amp electric only and a central hose bib. No shower house, no club house, no dump, no swimming pool. Just a place to get a quiet night of rest. Probably cut your price a bit and see where it goes. You can always add more amenities but once that money is spent and this thing never takes off it could just be a sink hole. If it does take off you can keep your overnight section and start building a full service section.

Well, I don't mind the 8 miles in the least, but this would keep me away.

OK so enjoy the free WM or truck stop near the interstate and run your generator all night. Or pay $50+ for full services that are probably not used for an overnight.

I guess I should have been more specific in my answer. I couldn't care less about electric only, no showers, no club house, no dump, no pool, I do care about only 30 amp. I'm not starting a new can of worms but we haven't ever stayed at Walmarts, truck stops, etc, although we do boondocks now and then. My coach is much happier on 50 amp particularly in the heat than 30 and that would keep us away, not the 8 miles.

[Bill_Satellite]

time2roll wrote:

William B wrote:

time2roll wrote:
For overnighters I would go with 30 amp electric only and a central hose bib. No shower house, no club house, no dump, no swimming pool. Just a place to get a quiet night of rest. Probably cut your price a bit and see where it goes. You can always add more amenities but once that money is spent and this thing never takes off it could just be a sink hole. If it does take off you can keep your overnight section and start building a full service section.

Well, I don't mind the 8 miles in the least, but this would keep me away.

OK so enjoy the free WM or truck stop near the interstate and run your generator all night. Or pay $50+ for full services that are probably not used for an overnight.

You make a highly uninformed assumption. There are plenty of convenient on/off campgrounds along the Interstates. While I do sometimes use Wal-Mart's RVers are getting kicked out of more and more so the 1-2 mile detour campground are where most of my overnight stops occur. I have literally never had to drive 16 miles out of my way to park a place to park for a few hours while I sleep.

[Walaby]

As a comparison, at least in terms of a stopover location, here's a campground that is about 5-6 miles off the interestate

http://www.benchmarkrv.net/index.html

I've stayed there once on my way to Texas, and plan on staying there again on my Christmas Texas trip.

It's $30 per night, but with Good Sams, I think it was $25 or $28

Concrete pads... all pull through's, Full Hook Up including cable and wifi.

Now, if you have a 50 amp rig, there is a slight up charge, EVEN if you say you will use the 30 amp plug. It was only a couple bucks, no big deal really.

It's a decent place to stop over night. Fairly close to the freeway. So, I would say comparable to what OP might be thinking. Just an example of what you might want to be prepared to offer/plan for. Didn't take up a lot of room. Two rows if I remember correctly.

Mike

[winniman]

One major item slightly touched on is whether the road is dirt or paved. Most rvers will not travel 8 miles of dirt road. It clogs our air filters, covers our tows in dust and gravel, and is just not desirable. This would be a deal breaker for many. If you proceed, one item I have found desirable, from owners and users point of view is unisex washrooms. Instead of having mens and womens, install x number of washrooms that is useable for either sex. This way the cleaners can close one at a time, and not disable the entire washroom. If you have tenters, and small campers, the washrooms become very important. We were at one campground this summer where they closed the shower house and bathrooms for a hour, at 8 in the morning for cleaning. What were they thinking. Many charge 50 cents or a dollar for a 10 minute shower. I will even use them on occasion. Its nice to just have a good, high pressure, hot shower once in a while that I dont feel like Im in a closet. Rv showers tend to be on the small side. Harvest Host could be a good angle, considering you have the brewery on site. Good luck.

[time2roll]

William B wrote:

time2roll wrote:
For overnighters I would go with 30 amp electric only and a central hose bib. No shower house, no club house, no dump, no swimming pool. Just a place to get a quiet night of rest. Probably cut your price a bit and see where it goes. You can always add more amenities but once that money is spent and this thing never takes off it could just be a sink hole. If it does take off you can keep your overnight section and start building a full service section.

Well, I don't mind the 8 miles in the least, but this would keep me away.

OK so enjoy the free WM or truck stop near the interstate and run your generator all night. Or pay $50+ for full services that are probably not used for an overnight.

[T18skyguy]

mike brez wrote:

T18skyguy wrote:

ford truck guy wrote:
When traveling and looking for an " over nighter" the FIRST thing I look for is distance from the highway.... We are NOT retired and are traveling to get to our destination for vacation... IF I were a full timer, that would give me a different outlook on that..

As far as tax's and regulations, I agree that as soon as that is no longer a WORKING FARM, you will lose that benefit, whatever it may be..

What it's called is farm deferral of taxes. Farmers get a big reduction of property taxes as long as they farm it. A problem arises when someone new buys the property, and decides not to farm it. When this happens, they have to pay all the back taxes to the beginning of farm deferral, no matter how far back it is. Nobody typically does this, but some buyers are unaware of the law when they buy, and the County hands them a really big bill. I'm in Oregon and we have that here.

If it is were I’m thinking it is they are farming some grain and hops for beer.
I’m sure that would keep that going along with some rv pads

People "fudging" on farm deferral is beginning to be a hot button issue out here. I just read a big article on about how some people are buying large tracks of pristine pieces of land and trying to claim farm deferral. It's starting to get press now, and when that happens they'll clamp down and end the party. I don't know about New York.