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PastorCharlie

NC

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Posted: 09/11/19 02:06pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

There is a difference in a tow limit and a pulling limit dependent upon the ditch rating. Hitches rate their limit for trailer towing which has a tongue weight. If the hitch has 350 tongue weight it has a tow weight of 3,500 pounds for a trailer. That is not addressing a 4 down towing, i.e. wagon type of vehicle which bears it own weight.

Also his Motorhome build may be built with too little CCC therefore maxed out and overweight when loaded for travel.

I was addressing the capability of the '97 Ford 460 CI engine and E40D transmission to pull the 4,900 pound wagon type vehicle according to my experience, with a properly rated hitch and auxiliary braking system properly adjusted for the specific vehicle being towed.

If his MH is overbuilt for his chassis and his tow combination then he has a problem. Not all '97 35' MH had the same chassis and same weight of house built upon it. Not all taters are alike. [emoticon]

Trumpet Player

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Posted: 09/11/19 10:04pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

tropical36 wrote:

gswcgi wrote:

If you get into an accident while towing that much over your weighted limit your insurance company will probably tell you to get lost !!

Granted, they may tell you to get lost, if they even have a clue as to weight being a factor or for maybe not wanting to renew your policy next time, but they will have to pay, regardless.


"...but they will have to pay, regardless." I wouldn't be so sure about that. Have you ever read your contract/policy with your insurance carrier? Most people don't and that can be a GIANT mistake. You need to take a look at your contract/policy for its defined "exclusions" of coverage. You might look for the exclusion that states something to the effect of "bodily injury or property damage reasonably expected to arise out of an intentional act." Reasonably expected would include exceeding certified posted limits. You think that these insurance companies spend the time and money they do having 60 or so pages drawn up by their staff attorneys so they don't cover themselves? Think again.


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FloridaRosebud

Melbourne

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Posted: 09/12/19 03:13am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Trumpet Player wrote:

tropical36 wrote:

gswcgi wrote:

If you get into an accident while towing that much over your weighted limit your insurance company will probably tell you to get lost !!

Granted, they may tell you to get lost, if they even have a clue as to weight being a factor or for maybe not wanting to renew your policy next time, but they will have to pay, regardless.


"...but they will have to pay, regardless." I wouldn't be so sure about that. Have you ever read your contract/policy with your insurance carrier? Most people don't and that can be a GIANT mistake. You need to take a look at your contract/policy for its defined "exclusions" of coverage. You might look for the exclusion that states something to the effect of "bodily injury or property damage reasonably expected to arise out of an intentional act." Reasonably expected would include exceeding certified posted limits. You think that these insurance companies spend the time and money they do having 60 or so pages drawn up by their staff attorneys so they don't cover themselves? Think again.


Unfortunately, Trumpet Player is correct. I work for insurance companies as an engineering consultant, and I can not tell you how many times I've seen claims turned down because of willful negligence on the insured.

Al

dodge guy

Bartlett IL

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Posted: 09/12/19 05:35am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

FloridaRosebud wrote:

Trumpet Player wrote:

tropical36 wrote:

gswcgi wrote:

If you get into an accident while towing that much over your weighted limit your insurance company will probably tell you to get lost !!

Granted, they may tell you to get lost, if they even have a clue as to weight being a factor or for maybe not wanting to renew your policy next time, but they will have to pay, regardless.


"...but they will have to pay, regardless." I wouldn't be so sure about that. Have you ever read your contract/policy with your insurance carrier? Most people don't and that can be a GIANT mistake. You need to take a look at your contract/policy for its defined "exclusions" of coverage. You might look for the exclusion that states something to the effect of "bodily injury or property damage reasonably expected to arise out of an intentional act." Reasonably expected would include exceeding certified posted limits. You think that these insurance companies spend the time and money they do having 60 or so pages drawn up by their staff attorneys so they don't cover themselves? Think again.


Unfortunately, Trumpet Player is correct. I work for insurance companies as an engineering consultant, and I can not tell you how many times I've seen claims turned down because of willful negligence on the insured.

Al


You mean like knowingly speeding or turning right on red?


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Trumpet Player

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Posted: 09/12/19 12:42pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

dodge guy wrote:

FloridaRosebud wrote:

Trumpet Player wrote:

tropical36 wrote:

gswcgi wrote:

If you get into an accident while towing that much over your weighted limit your insurance company will probably tell you to get lost !!

Granted, they may tell you to get lost, if they even have a clue as to weight being a factor or for maybe not wanting to renew your policy next time, but they will have to pay, regardless.


"...but they will have to pay, regardless." I wouldn't be so sure about that. Have you ever read your contract/policy with your insurance carrier? Most people don't and that can be a GIANT mistake. You need to take a look at your contract/policy for its defined "exclusions" of coverage. You might look for the exclusion that states something to the effect of "bodily injury or property damage reasonably expected to arise out of an intentional act." Reasonably expected would include exceeding certified posted limits. You think that these insurance companies spend the time and money they do having 60 or so pages drawn up by their staff attorneys so they don't cover themselves? Think again.


Unfortunately, Trumpet Player is correct. I work for insurance companies as an engineering consultant, and I can not tell you how many times I've seen claims turned down because of willful negligence on the insured.

Al


You mean like knowingly speeding or turning right on red?


Dodge Guy,

I believe that turning right on a red light after coming to a complete stop is legal in most states unless posted otherwise. But if you are concerned, you might want to check your local state driver's handbook? Also, if traveling out of state, you might want to check the laws of the states in which you plan to travel.

way2roll

Wilmington NC

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Posted: 09/12/19 02:59pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

dodge guy wrote:

FloridaRosebud wrote:

Trumpet Player wrote:

tropical36 wrote:

gswcgi wrote:

If you get into an accident while towing that much over your weighted limit your insurance company will probably tell you to get lost !!

Granted, they may tell you to get lost, if they even have a clue as to weight being a factor or for maybe not wanting to renew your policy next time, but they will have to pay, regardless.


"...but they will have to pay, regardless." I wouldn't be so sure about that. Have you ever read your contract/policy with your insurance carrier? Most people don't and that can be a GIANT mistake. You need to take a look at your contract/policy for its defined "exclusions" of coverage. You might look for the exclusion that states something to the effect of "bodily injury or property damage reasonably expected to arise out of an intentional act." Reasonably expected would include exceeding certified posted limits. You think that these insurance companies spend the time and money they do having 60 or so pages drawn up by their staff attorneys so they don't cover themselves? Think again.


Unfortunately, Trumpet Player is correct. I work for insurance companies as an engineering consultant, and I can not tell you how many times I've seen claims turned down because of willful negligence on the insured.

Al


You mean like knowingly speeding or turning right on red?


I think he means like knowingly being about 1,400 lbs over weight.

Richert

florida

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Posted: 09/12/19 03:36pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

you answered your own question, you will be towing 1400 lbs over your limit!!!!!

Dont do it.


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timmac

Las Vegas

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Posted: 09/12/19 04:18pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Larrysr1957 wrote:

My question is has anyone pulled a full size pickup with a 35 ft gas motor home I have a 1997 Fleetwood Bounder 34V with a Ford 460 engine and my tow limit is 3500 lbs my truck is 4900 lbs.


You can upgrade the hitch and the frame extension to the back of motorhome to safely tow 5000 pounds, my 08 Bounder was modified in back to tow up to 7500 lbs from the factory 5000 lbs or you can get a newer motorhome that tows 5000 lbs.

I am also wondering if that older 460 and older trans can handle the extra weight and what about the brakes, I have a 2018 Toyota Tacoma ext cab that weights 4000 lbs, might consider a smaller truck..

timmac

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Posted: 09/14/19 09:03pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Trumpet Player wrote:

RLS7201 wrote:

Ford rated your 17,000lb F53 chassis to tow 8,000lbs. Fleetwood derated your chassis when they installed frame extensions and installed a 3500lb receiver. If you take a look at the installation of the frame extensions, it may scare you. Have those frame extensions beefed up and add a 5000lb receiver and you'll be good to go with that truck.

Richard


Unfortunately, the recommendation to "beef up the frame extensions" is frankly one really bad piece of advice.

As most probably know, the required federal certification sticker as issued by the completed vehicle manufacturer sets the maximum limits allowed for each vehicle. The fact is, if you were over the allowed gross combined weight (as you would be based on your description), having the modifications made as recommended above would actually work against you, if God forbid there were to be an accident. See, a first year law student could present the idea that clearly you knew you had an over capacity/weight issue and you attempted an unapproved modification to try and compensate for the conditions. That would then be turned on you to prove gross negligence on your part. You would also likely see your insurance carrier wash their hands of any liability coverage as a result.

Sorry, that is just the way it works. I have testified many times on issues like these as a SME (Subject Matter Expert) and seen it happen.


Beefing up the rear frame and adding a 5000 lb hitch on a chassis that is rated for up to 8000 towing is not a bad idea in my book, just make sure you have good toad brakes, safety chains, etc and I don't see a issue, I would only limit the towing to 5000 lbs..

I towed 6800 lbs behind my beefed up motorhome for over 3 years no issues..

When a drunk driver has a accident the insurance company is still on the hook even though the drunk driver knew he was in the wrong..

Trumpet Player

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Posted: 09/14/19 09:50pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

timmac wrote:

Trumpet Player wrote:

RLS7201 wrote:

Ford rated your 17,000lb F53 chassis to tow 8,000lbs. Fleetwood derated your chassis when they installed frame extensions and installed a 3500lb receiver. If you take a look at the installation of the frame extensions, it may scare you. Have those frame extensions beefed up and add a 5000lb receiver and you'll be good to go with that truck.

Richard


Unfortunately, the recommendation to "beef up the frame extensions" is frankly one really bad piece of advice.

As most probably know, the required federal certification sticker as issued by the completed vehicle manufacturer sets the maximum limits allowed for each vehicle. The fact is, if you were over the allowed gross combined weight (as you would be based on your description), having the modifications made as recommended above would actually work against you, if God forbid there were to be an accident. See, a first year law student could present the idea that clearly you knew you had an over capacity/weight issue and you attempted an unapproved modification to try and compensate for the conditions. That would then be turned on you to prove gross negligence on your part. You would also likely see your insurance carrier wash their hands of any liability coverage as a result.

Sorry, that is just the way it works. I have testified many times on issues like these as a SME (Subject Matter Expert) and seen it happen.


Beefing up the rear frame and adding a 5000 lb hitch on a chassis that is rated for up to 8000 towing is not a bad idea in my book, just make sure you have good toad brakes, safety chains, etc and I don't see a issue, I would only limit the towing to 5000 lbs..

I towed 6800 lbs behind my beefed up motorhome for over 3 years no issues..

When a drunk driver has a accident the insurance company is still on the hook even though the drunk driver knew he was in the wrong..


You really need to read the exclusions that are detailed in your contract/policy with your insurance carrier. You need to take a look at your contract/policy for its defined "exclusions" of coverage. You might look for the exclusion that states something to the effect of "bodily injury or property damage reasonably expected to arise out of an intentional act." Reasonably expected would include exceeding certified posted limits. An intentional act would clearly include the really bad idea of attempting an unapproved modification. You think that these insurance companies spend the time and money they do having 60 or so pages drawn up by their staff attorneys so they don't cover themselves? Think again.

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