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dodge guy

Bartlett IL

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Posted: 09/19/19 05:24am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

dougrainer wrote:

JALLEN4 wrote:

ST LUCIE APPRAISAL wrote:

There is an inherent danger in non-disclosure of accident repairs when selling even though the accident doesn't appear on Carfax. Putting the moral issues aside, a subsequent collision to the same area that was repaired could cause a structural failure resulting in injuries, possible lawsuits, etc. If an insurance adjuster should deny or low-ball your claim because it isn't on Carfax, ask them if they are saying that you should withhold the repair info from any prospective buyer. Not one of them will answer yes. Therefore, the "not on Carfax" claim denial approach is easily challenged.


I have through my businesses sold tens of thousands of cars with that never being a "thing". You are just making up scenarios trying to justify your business.


A few years ago in Dallas, we had a Jury rule against a Body Shop/DEALER and The Insurance company, for millions of dollars in damages because the Dealer Body Shop did NOT follow (either Honda or Toyota) Body manual when repairing a damaged roof top on a Car. They repaired(cheaper), but the manual stated to replace. After the Car was fixed and then sold to another person, That person rolled the Car and nearly died when the roof collapsed. Experts determined the roof would not have collapsed as it did if the original repair was done to OEM spec. Doug

https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2017/10/04/couple-awarded-crash/


That has nothing to do with diminished value. That has everything to do with proper repair. I'm sure if the car had a pre purchase inspection it would've been found.


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lawjohnson

Lake Stevens WA

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Posted: 09/20/19 11:14pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Diminished Value is not a term that insurance companies like to hear unless it is in thier favor.
Example: I had a rebuilt title 98 Buick Riviera that I used as a daily commuter. I bought it at an insurance auction, it had a damaged front bumper cover, left headlight and fender. I repaired it, less than 2K for parts, (this was a few years back). I drove it for years and then gave it to my son who was promply rear ended by someone talking on their phone instead of paying attention to what they were doing. They had no insurance, ours covered it on the uninsured motorist coverage. At the time it was worth about 4500 per the blue book, they paid 2k! The reason?? it had been totaled before! Did they give me a 50% discount on the coverage costs all the time I had it insured with them? NO!!!

Rant over.... Get a lawyer. That is the only way to fight it. IT will not be worth it. The legal fees are going to more than surpass any gains you will get on the diminished value claim.

lawjohnson

Lake Stevens WA

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Posted: 09/20/19 11:20pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ItsyRV wrote:

dodge guy wrote:

Diminished value is a joke. So if I had an accident that damaged a front axle on a vehicle or a fender. And it was replaced with new? How is the vehicle worth any less? The vehicle is repaired to how it was before the accident. So how is it now worth less? The only way it would be worth less is if the repair wasn’t done properly and corners were cut.

I don't think you understand the meaning of diminished value.

Try this, you go looking for a vehicle. You find two of the exact same year, make, model, color, miles, etc., etc. They both drive and were maintained in same shape. Now, you pull a vehicle history report and notice that one has an adverse notation of "Accident - Front End - Major" showing. Are you saying you would not value the one without the accident higher and the one with the accident lower?


Take a car/truck into a dealer to trade it in that has had damage that was reported and on a car facts and see what happens. You will not be offered as much as a car with a clean car fax.

JALLEN4

SouthWest Ohio

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Posted: 09/21/19 06:34am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

lawjohnson wrote:

Diminished Value is not a term that insurance companies like to hear unless it is in thier favor.
Example: I had a rebuilt title 98 Buick Riviera that I used as a daily commuter. I bought it at an insurance auction, it had a damaged front bumper cover, left headlight and fender. I repaired it, less than 2K for parts, (this was a few years back). I drove it for years and then gave it to my son who was promply rear ended by someone talking on their phone instead of paying attention to what they were doing. They had no insurance, ours covered it on the uninsured motorist coverage. At the time it was worth about 4500 per the blue book, they paid 2k! The reason?? it had been totaled before! Did they give me a 50% discount on the coverage costs all the time I had it insured with them? NO!!!

Rant over.... Get a lawyer. That is the only way to fight it. IT will not be worth it. The legal fees are going to more than surpass any gains you will get on the diminished value claim.


Did that car not have a salvage title? If you bought it at an insurance auction with a branded title, you knew exactly what you were buying into. The "book" value does not reflect the salvage title. As well, obviously your insurance coverage costs are not based exclusively on the value of the vehicle involved. Liability, comprehensive, and several other factors weigh in to the ultimate cost.

dodge guy

Bartlett IL

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Posted: 09/21/19 06:53am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

lawjohnson wrote:

ItsyRV wrote:

dodge guy wrote:

Diminished value is a joke. So if I had an accident that damaged a front axle on a vehicle or a fender. And it was replaced with new? How is the vehicle worth any less? The vehicle is repaired to how it was before the accident. So how is it now worth less? The only way it would be worth less is if the repair wasn’t done properly and corners were cut.

I don't think you understand the meaning of diminished value.

Try this, you go looking for a vehicle. You find two of the exact same year, make, model, color, miles, etc., etc. They both drive and were maintained in same shape. Now, you pull a vehicle history report and notice that one has an adverse notation of "Accident - Front End - Major" showing. Are you saying you would not value the one without the accident higher and the one with the accident lower?


Take a car/truck into a dealer to trade it in that has had damage that was reported and on a car facts and see what happens. You will not be offered as much as a car with a clean car fax.


That's what I have been saying. Car fax was originally conceived to give a potential buyer a heads up that the car was repaired and to have it inspected before purchase. It is not intended to devalue a vehicle. It is up to the customer to decide if a vehicle is worth any less after it is inspected.

Walaby

Georgia

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Posted: 09/21/19 09:03am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Carfax is but one tool a consumer can use.

KBB etc that provide valuation based on vehicle condition miles etc, is another.

When you use the two together, the valuation is provided based on the condition and accident record of the vehicle. Together, along with other things, allow the consumer to be more informed.

The fact still remains, vehicles that have been involved in an accident, are typically valued at less than ones that have not. If the consumer wants to ignore that, or over look it because he/she loves the vehicle, that's their prerogative.

Mike


Im Mike Willoughby, and I approve this message.
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JALLEN4

SouthWest Ohio

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Posted: 09/22/19 06:22am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

dodge guy wrote:

lawjohnson wrote:

ItsyRV wrote:

dodge guy wrote:

Diminished value is a joke. So if I had an accident that damaged a front axle on a vehicle or a fender. And it was replaced with new? How is the vehicle worth any less? The vehicle is repaired to how it was before the accident. So how is it now worth less? The only way it would be worth less is if the repair wasn’t done properly and corners were cut.

I don't think you understand the meaning of diminished value.

Try this, you go looking for a vehicle. You find two of the exact same year, make, model, color, miles, etc., etc. They both drive and were maintained in same shape. Now, you pull a vehicle history report and notice that one has an adverse notation of "Accident - Front End - Major" showing. Are you saying you would not value the one without the accident higher and the one with the accident lower?


Take a car/truck into a dealer to trade it in that has had damage that was reported and on a car facts and see what happens. You will not be offered as much as a car with a clean car fax.


That's what I have been saying. Car fax was originally conceived to give a potential buyer a heads up that the car was repaired and to have it inspected before purchase. It is not intended to devalue a vehicle. It is up to the customer to decide if a vehicle is worth any less after it is inspected.


Actually, CarFax was conceived purely to make money. They invented their own market and ultimately exploited the consumer. They have reported damage to vehicles and driven the value of the consumer's cars down drastically with the idea that if there was ever damage it must be worth thousands less. There were laws in place to protect the consumer from flood damaged vehicles, salvage titles, bent frames, etc long before they came along. The intelligent buyer who now uses Carfax is the same buyer who before researched their purchase and had them inspected to make sure the vehicle was worthy of purchase. The careless buyer doesn't look at the CarFax or doesn't do the still necessary inspection. CarFax is far from capturing all the information.

Right behind the CarFax ploy along comes the lawyers selling the diminished value concept as another money maker from the consumer. While insurance companies are the ones writing the checks it takes very naive people to not recognize that ultimately we are all paying for the nonsense with increased insurance premiums. Another case of people inventing their own industry and then selling people on the idea that their $40,000 vehicle loses 10% of its value if it suffers a $1,000 damage and is reported by CarFax. Again, it takes a very naive population to believe that concept is valid and we are the ones suffering the loss.

People are taught that CarFax is protecting the consumer from the big bad dealer. Really? The dealer simply follows the market direction and starts subtracting major money from your value when you show up with a car with reported damage. Since people can't tell the difference between minor and major, every incidence starts costing big money. The only people losing and winning nothing in this deal are you and me.... the average consumer!

Bert Ackerman

Palm Beach

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Posted: 09/22/19 06:39am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

JALLEN4 wrote:

dodge guy wrote:

lawjohnson wrote:

ItsyRV wrote:

dodge guy wrote:

Diminished value is a joke. So if I had an accident that damaged a front axle on a vehicle or a fender. And it was replaced with new? How is the vehicle worth any less? The vehicle is repaired to how it was before the accident. So how is it now worth less? The only way it would be worth less is if the repair wasn’t done properly and corners were cut.

I don't think you understand the meaning of diminished value.

Try this, you go looking for a vehicle. You find two of the exact same year, make, model, color, miles, etc., etc. They both drive and were maintained in same shape. Now, you pull a vehicle history report and notice that one has an adverse notation of "Accident - Front End - Major" showing. Are you saying you would not value the one without the accident higher and the one with the accident lower?


Take a car/truck into a dealer to trade it in that has had damage that was reported and on a car facts and see what happens. You will not be offered as much as a car with a clean car fax.


That's what I have been saying. Car fax was originally conceived to give a potential buyer a heads up that the car was repaired and to have it inspected before purchase. It is not intended to devalue a vehicle. It is up to the customer to decide if a vehicle is worth any less after it is inspected.


Actually, CarFax was conceived purely to make money. They invented their own market and ultimately exploited the consumer. They have reported damage to vehicles and driven the value of the consumer's cars down drastically with the idea that if there was ever damage it must be worth thousands less. There were laws in place to protect the consumer from flood damaged vehicles, salvage titles, bent frames, etc long before they came along. The intelligent buyer who now uses Carfax is the same buyer who before researched their purchase and had them inspected to make sure the vehicle was worthy of purchase. The careless buyer doesn't look at the CarFax or doesn't do the still necessary inspection. CarFax is far from capturing all the information.

Right behind the CarFax ploy along comes the lawyers selling the diminished value concept as another money maker from the consumer. While insurance companies are the ones writing the checks it takes very naive people to not recognize that ultimately we are all paying for the nonsense with increased insurance premiums. Another case of people inventing their own industry and then selling people on the idea that their $40,000 vehicle loses 10% of its value if it suffers a $1,000 damage and is reported by CarFax. Again, it takes a very naive population to believe that concept is valid and we are the ones suffering the loss.

People are taught that CarFax is protecting the consumer from the big bad dealer. Really? The dealer simply follows the market direction and starts subtracting major money from your value when you show up with a car with reported damage. Since people can't tell the difference between minor and major, every incidence starts costing big money. The only people losing and winning nothing in this deal are you and me.... the average consumer!



Thank you. I would have used some select words other than naive and average, but you have hit the nail on the head with your assessment.

rgatijnet1

Florida

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Posted: 09/22/19 07:19am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Actually diminished value came about primarily because the auto industry switched from vehicles with frames to unibody construction. With a vehicle with a frame it was easy to tell if a vehicle was repaired properly. With a unibody type vehicle they will cut off entire sections of the body and ATTEMPT to duplicate the same rigidity that the factory obtained with their robots and in a carefully controlled environment. When a unibody type vehicle is sent to a repair shop, that is working with the insurance company and has time limits and a budget, there is almost a 100% probability that corners will be cut and once put together and covered with body filler and paint, you cannot tell if ALL of the welds were done and if they meet the same(they don't) quality as those that came from the factory.
I am sure there are some here that work at body shops that will swear that their repair is just as good as what came from the factory. That is a myth put out by the insurance companies to convince owners that their vehicle was properly repaired. There is not one single body shop anywhere in this country that can cut off a section of a unibody vehicle and install a new section that is as good as what came from the factory, with the amount paid by the insurance company. There are too many points of contact that cannot be properly attached/welded by a human after the vehicle has left the factory. They can look pretty after the repair but the damaged vehicle will never be the same.

dodge guy

Bartlett IL

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Posted: 09/22/19 08:04am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

rgatijnet1 wrote:

Actually diminished value came about primarily because the auto industry switched from vehicles with frames to unibody construction. With a vehicle with a frame it was easy to tell if a vehicle was repaired properly. With a unibody type vehicle they will cut off entire sections of the body and ATTEMPT to duplicate the same rigidity that the factory obtained with their robots and in a carefully controlled environment. When a unibody type vehicle is sent to a repair shop, that is working with the insurance company and has time limits and a budget, there is almost a 100% probability that corners will be cut and once put together and covered with body filler and paint, you cannot tell if ALL of the welds were done and if they meet the same(they don't) quality as those that came from the factory.
I am sure there are some here that work at body shops that will swear that their repair is just as good as what came from the factory. That is a myth put out by the insurance companies to convince owners that their vehicle was properly repaired. There is not one single body shop anywhere in this country that can cut off a section of a unibody vehicle and install a new section that is as good as what came from the factory, with the amount paid by the insurance company. There are too many points of contact that cannot be properly attached/welded by a human after the vehicle has left the factory. They can look pretty after the repair but the damaged vehicle will never be the same.


If you take your car to billy bobs body shop in a broken down backyard garage, then yes there will be problems. If you take it to a reputable repair shop the repair will be just as good if not better than the factory! I have worked in a body shop that did things methodical. They took there time but the repair was always better than new. This is where inspecting any vehicle comes in.

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